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Thread: Is Self Defense a Myth?

  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    In short, what we are doing is, quite simply, learning to fight.
    You never disappoint me.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by RenDaHai View Post
    But then I think maybe it is a cultural thing. Maybe because of Guns in North America the stakes are higher and people do avoid confrontation more so when it does happen it is more extreme..... I don't know.
    Guns have nothing to do with the violence in our culture...this is confusing cause and effect...

    http://auburnpub.com/ap/state/syracu...6c0e40670.html


    Yesterday's local news....
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    If the purpose of meditation is to transcend the ego, then doesn't over-concern over the length of one's meditation sessions as compared to others defeat its very purpose in the first place?
    Please bear in mind all my posts are simply a reaction or answer to other posts. I didn't start a thread saying 'Ha, I meditate more than you all'. BaWang was making it sound like lifting weights is the hardest thing to do. It is a reaction statement. In it I did not actually even mention myself doing it, this is something many monks typically do. This is a part of Kung Fu training which I think is more difficult than lifting weights, how do I get this point across without violating some preconceived ideas of meditation others have and actually talking about it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drake View Post
    That's called being a lazy *****.
    I see.
    Last edited by RenDaHai; 09-24-2013 at 09:04 PM.

  4. #124
    "Difficult" is a matter of perspective. What's hard for one may be easy(or less hard) for another.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    Don't try to substitute personal experience for reality either.

  5. #125
    every martial art teacher,teaching martial arts for self defense purpose will tell their student, try to avoid a situation at any cost. but that doesn't help you if someone actual attacks you. if you are used to having different body shapes and sizes,ages and genders,grabbing you kicking you attacking you,in practice,for sure it will help you deal with that pressure if it should happen for real. if you are used to actually hitting vulnerable targets,using every day objects as weapons gaining distance then escaping.


    nothing in life is guaranteed, but if this type of training didn't help,for example why would drivers ed start you off with a fake steering wheel before having you drive a real car. i had people tell me a video i recently posted on women's self defense is useless,that ninjutsu is useless for self defense. for this i mention,one of my old teachers a man about 5 foot 7,bit stocking but not very big ,was a rikers island correctional officer. when i asked him if he ever used this stuff he said daily. what job sees more violence then a riykers island prison guard. a fellow student of mine at the time a green belt, a beautiful young lady defended herself against three men in central park that attacked her. every week students would come into the school with stories,this stuff really works.


    so let the nay sayers,be nay sayers,but training in a self defense system,does increase one's odds to survive a danerguos encounter.
    Last edited by wiz cool c; 09-24-2013 at 10:31 PM.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by RenDaHai View Post
    BaWang was making it sound like lifting weights is the hardest thing to do. It is a reaction statement. In it I did not actually even mention myself doing it, this is something many monks typically do. This is a part of Kung Fu training which I think is more difficult than lifting weights

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...s9ptAXlI#t=134
    LOL SO EASY LOL
    Last edited by bawang; 09-25-2013 at 06:56 AM.

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  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    You never disappoint me.
    Ah dude, people can sugar coated all they want and add all the superfluous "spiritual values" they want, in the end the truth is we are learning to hurt another human being.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    Ah dude, people can sugar coated all they want and add all the superfluous "spiritual values" they want, in the end the truth is we are learning to hurt another human being.
    there is spiritual value in punching a man in the face.

    *stroke beard slowly

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  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    I am becoming increasingly uncomfortable with the term "self defense."

    It's used across the board to sell martial arts, but I doubt it really has much to do, historically, with traditional war arts. We all know "self defense" has long been used to persuade Western parents into putting their kids into a MA program, but are we drinking our own Kool Aid?

    If you think about it, "self defense" is almost counter intuitive to the mindset of fighting. The military drills, conditioning and desensitizing of orthodox Gong Fu seems awfully far removed from anti-bullying and protecting yourself from rapists. I'm not saying those are bad things, but are we really to believe that comes from the same art as forging the body and mind into a weapon?

    What kind of person is going to start a street fight with me? More likely than not it will be an Alpha male type. It will probably be an aggressive person that feels they are stronger than me. Putting yourself on defense starts you off with a losing strategy...you really need a mindset, not unlike the aggressors, to deal with this type of aggression.

    Sure, it's a cliche that the best defense is a good offense, but do you really think your going to deflect and parry your way to victory? Going to save it all up for the one big finish? The attacker, is generally in a better position than the defender.

    I think if you look at it objectively, the whole "self defense" thing isn't really what the tradition was.
    Kung Fu was created to protect oneself from animals and bandits. So the core of Kung Fu (and other martial arts) IS protection or self defense.

    The problem is how a lot of schools (and self defense seminars) train their students. Its simply unrealistic, archaic, and downright silly. Doing a traditional Broad Sword form sure looks nice, but what's the practicality of that? Of course, we all do MA for different purposes. However, if the purpose is to protect yourself from being attacked, I don't believe that learning a sword form is the right way to go. I won't even get into how a lot of Kung Fu and Karate schools don't teach proper striking techniques. Women who practice these arts in the hopes of stopping a larger assailant from assaulting them is in for an unfortunate reality when the rubber hits the road.

    I know many here will disagree, but I believe the best representation of modern MA is in the sport realm. A martial athlete is simply a better fighter than a martial artist. Athletes in general are better at physical expression than a non-athlete. Anyone wonder why boxers and wrestlers tend to eat martial artists for breakfast? I have no doubt that Rhonda Rousey is more capable of defending herself than a woman who does self defense class twice a week for a half an hour. That's simply reality.

    TDLR: If you want to learn self defense and fighting, do a martial sport. If you want to learn culture, historical arts, and personal spiritual growth, learn a martial art. BTW, personal spiritual growth does have self defense applications. In the end, it all depends on what you want as practitioner.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by BigPandaBear View Post

    I know many here will disagree, but I believe the best representation of modern MA is in the sport realm. A martial athlete is simply a better fighter than a martial artist. Athletes in general are better at physical expression than a non-athlete. Anyone wonder why boxers and wrestlers tend to eat martial artists for breakfast? I have no doubt that Rhonda Rousey is more capable of defending herself than a woman who does self defense class twice a week for a half an hour. That's simply reality.
    There's also many here that will agree. Also, if you want to test your TMA skill I think there is no better setting than in a sport fight. You don't have to train modern sport to compete, they'll let you jump in.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

  11. #131
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    In my last Shaolin class, we trained doing armbreak techniques on a straight arm. In the vast majority of self defense situations, if I broke someone's arm I would get arrested, particularly if it was from just a grab. 'Sorry about that, you were just going to push me a bit eh? Oh dear!' Of course, learning the move and being able to do it under stress are quite different things too...And straightening someone's arm is not always easy either...

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Sima Rong View Post
    In my last Shaolin class, we trained doing armbreak techniques on a straight arm. In the vast majority of self defense situations, if I broke someone's arm I would get arrested, particularly if it was from just a grab. 'Sorry about that, you were just going to push me a bit eh? Oh dear!' Of course, learning the move and being able to do it under stress are quite different things too...And straightening someone's arm is not always easy either...
    If you grab my wrist I can do lots of cool Chi na stuff to you. Trouble is, who in the world starts a fight by grabbing your wrist? If you get in a fighting stance and put your guard up it becomes near impossible to pull off a lot of that Chi na stuff live.

    Now if we are ground fighting it's a different story, but then Chi na is BJJ not KF.

    I think most of the classical, standing Chi na works well when you are quickly applying it to an unsuspecting person, not in a one on one fight scenario....which leads me to believe, it was not designed for self defense...
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Sima Rong View Post
    In my last Shaolin class, we trained doing armbreak techniques on a straight arm. In the vast majority of self defense situations, if I broke someone's arm I would get arrested, particularly if it was from just a grab. 'Sorry about that, you were just going to push me a bit eh? Oh dear!' Of course, learning the move and being able to do it under stress are quite different things too...And straightening someone's arm is not always easy either...
    One of the benefits of Judo (and subsequently BJJ) is that its creator instituted randori. Randori is the greatest invention of grappling/locking MA ever conceived. It allows the practitioner to perform locks, chokes, and holds at full intensity without actually harming your partner.

    So a skilled Judoka/BJJer doesn't need to break your arm. They can just pin you to the ground, or put you to sleep. Their training methodology teaches them how to perform these movements against a trained and resisting opponent constantly. So when they use it on an untrained resisting opponent, its actually EASIER to apply.

    I also like the fact that Judo and Bjj teaches its students how to fight on their back, or on their hands and knees. This is very important, especially for women who are more than likely to face an assailant trying to get on top of them. The fact that Judo and Bjj schools tend to be filled with big burly men only increases the self defense benefits for female practitioners. If you can choke out that 250lb blackbelt in your class, you'll probably be able to choke out your out of shape boyfriend who had one too many beers.

    I love TCMA, but we have some catching up to do. Fortunately there are teachers out there embracing more modern methods for self defense purposes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    There's also many here that will agree. Also, if you want to test your TMA skill I think there is no better setting than in a sport fight. You don't have to train modern sport to compete, they'll let you jump in.
    Good to hear! I often get discouraged when I see TMA schools refusing to let their students cross-train or study other arts. Meanwhile, the MMA schools freely cross train with each other, and constantly improve their arts. We need to stop thinking that cross training dillutes our styles, and recognize that a lot of our "pure" TMA styles are the products of cross training.
    Last edited by BigPandaBear; 09-29-2013 at 05:39 PM.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    If you grab my wrist I can do lots of cool Chi na stuff to you. Trouble is, who in the world starts a fight by grabbing your wrist? If you get in a fighting stance and put your guard up it becomes near impossible to pull off a lot of that Chi na stuff live.

    Now if we are ground fighting it's a different story, but then Chi na is BJJ not KF.

    I think most of the classical, standing Chi na works well when you are quickly applying it to an unsuspecting person, not in a one on one fight scenario....which leads me to believe, it was not designed for self defense...
    Excuse me, sir, if you'd please come with me over to this open area so that I might kick your ass. *grabs wrist*
    The weakest of all weak things is a virtue that has not been tested in the fire.
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  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Drake View Post
    Excuse me, sir, if you'd please come with me over to this open area so that I might kick your ass. *grabs wrist*
    I will oblige you with mortal combat, but only if you attack with nothing but exaggeratedly telegraphed haymakers, posing after each punch so I can land my twelve technique combo.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

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