Is Self Defense a Myth?

[Kellen Bassette]

A mistake a lot of people make is to consider these Wushu styles as 'Martial Art'. This is a poor translation. These Clans pass down a collection of skills, not all of the skills are related to Martial Arts. They are a collection of 'Gong' skills. To consider them as a 'Martial art' is not correct as that is only part of the skills passed down.

I do agree with you here, many Gongs are not directly related to martial skill, they may benefit it indirectly, by making you stronger, more agile, more athletic in general, but are really not necessary or intended for combat.

[ShaolinDan]

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...ad.php?t=49825

[SPJ]

Use common sense.

Use a tool. Pick up something and use it.

We sharpen a rock and throw a rock to defend our self against animals with claws and teeth since the stone age.

Defense is a common sense and not a myth.

[David Jamieson]

You can only help yourself through action and you can help others by letting them know what actions work.

Awareness? don't text and drive? Don't text and walk? Don't chat on the phone while driving, don't space out while in public area, don't go to late night clubs filled with drunk and ornery folk, etc, etc.

Yeah, unfortunately at least 50% of us are stupid as rocks, feel entitled and will do absolutely nothing to ensure that our personal safety is optimized and if anything goes wrong, it is almost never our fault.

pfft. Let the Darwin awards be handed out regularly!

[Kellen Bassette]

Use common sense.

Use a tool. Pick up something and use it.

We sharpen a rock and throw a rock to defend our self against animals with claws and teeth since the stone age.

Defense is a common sense and not a myth.

I think I've mentioned about 5 times now that this thread was about the intended purpose of Gong Fu training....not whether or not anyone has actually ever used martial arts to defend themselves....

Oh well.....

[YouKnowWho]

the intended purpose of Gong Fu training....

When I was 7 years old, I used to put a small rock among my 3 fingers. I squeezed it everyday and hopefully someday I would be able to squeeze that small rock into powder.

My "intend" was one day I would be able to dig my 3 fingers into my opponent's bone. Whether I could go to jail for that or not, I just didn't think about that far when I was that young.

[Kellen Bassette]

Whether I could go to jail for that or not, I just didn't think about that far when I was that young.

You can't get hung up on semantics...

[RenDaHai]

I think I've mentioned about 5 times now that this thread was about the intended purpose of Gong Fu training....not whether or not anyone has actually ever used martial arts to defend themselves....

Oh well.....

Well then here is your answer;

Look at the 'Gong' skills themselves.

All of you here know some Kung fu right? Look at the techniques passed to you. Do they look like techniques designed for large battlefield engagements? Do they look like they were intended to strengthen the body? Do they look like they were intended for assassination? Do they look like they were intended for a ring match? Do they look like they were intended for a self defence scenario? Do they look like they were intended for spiritual cultivation? Do they look like they were intended for performance?

Look at the techniques themselves. They all have their place. An old style may have skills for ALL of the things above. A Wushu style is NOT ONE thing. It is a collection of skills handed down for generations. Skills that make life safer and longer and better to live. That is why they were kept and passed on.


SO what is Gong fu training for? Of course some of it is for self defence, that is clear by looking at the actual techniques. Of course some of it is for strengthening, of course some of it is for cultivation, etc. etc.

Of the things passed down what do you practice most? That is what your style will become.

[YouKnowWho]

Do they look like they were intended for assassination?

What do you thing the following training is for. It was used to kill someone without making a sound. I don't see any self defense flavor in this training.

http://imageshack.us/a/img861/159/beggercarrydog.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img213/7828/headlock.jpg

Some training just have nothing to do with self defense no matter how hard that you may try to link it to it.

http://imageshack.us/a/img405/4333/3o9f.jpg

[bawang]

SO what is Gong fu training for? Of course some of it is for self defence, that is clear by looking at the actual techniques. Of course some of it is for strengthening, of course some of it is for cultivation, etc. etc.

Of the things passed down what do you practice most? That is what your style will become.

the goal of kung fu is to transform you mentally. that mental transformation cannot be reached by doing forms or knife defence drills. kung fu cannot be achieved by technique.

the mental threshold that leads to enlightenment and personal transformation is achieved through bitter toil and labor, misery, pain, train until depression over and over again. not by meditating on the esoteric colonic interpretations of xiaohongquan variation #4 from wangbang village.

out of the 72 skills of shaolin, half is weight lifting. other half is hitting things and spacial coordination. how many of the gongs have you actually done? compared to how many forms you learned?

when you cross that threshold, you couldn't give a fuk about self defence. there will be no well endowed black man haunting your dreams.

[RenDaHai]

Some training just have nothing to do with self defense no matter how hard that you may try to link it to it.

.......Do they look like they were intended for assassination......

Look at the techniques themselves. They all have their place. An old style may have skills for ALL of the things above.

I said there are skills for ALL these things. It is not about ONE thing. There are a collection of skills.

Clearly when you look at the techniques in a style they are not ALL for Self defence, but they are also clearly not ALL for Warfare. Nor are they ALL for any one thing.

Definitely there is self defence there as well. Why does Shaolin practice with farm tools. Would you go to war with these or are they to defend your village from raiders?

[RenDaHai]

the goal of kung fu is to transform you mentally.

when you cross that threshold, you couldn't give a fuk about self defence. there will be no well endowed black man haunting your dreams.

You do not need to tell me this.

In a previous thread I was the one saying Gong Fu was for transformation and you were opposing. Don't throw that one back at me.

Never the less analyse the techniques themselves. Clearly they are not all for one purpose. Some individual Gongs have their specific use.

Is the Skill of night walking used in ring combat, or is it as it sounds for sneaking around at night? Would an army go to war using the GuiZhang walking stick or was it a walking stick that doubled as a self defence weapon? Is Ba Duan Jin a military strategy for battle formation or is it for strengthening the body?

Things have their place, if you try and say they are ALL for war art, or all for any one thing you will mis apply them.

[YouKnowWho]

the goal of kung fu is to transform you mentally.

You are very deep on this. To me, the goal of Kung Fu is to "use your fist to transform your opponent's face".

[bawang]

You do not need to tell me this.

In a previous thread I was the one saying Gong Fu was for transformation and you were opposing. Don't throw that one back at me.

you think gong fu is to transform you into an enlightened higher being, who do forms on rooftop and fight wild animals for Buddha. I mean a different kind of transformation.

Is the Skill of night walking used in ring combat, or is it as it sounds for sneaking around at night?

you kung fu hobby warriors, always, ALWAYS talk about the easiest stupidest gongs. like punching candles or swinging a coin by your ear or some sh1t.

how about you try training hanging golden bell (hanging leg raise)? about how reverse hanging golden bell(hanging situp)? how about pulling tree skill, hug a 200 pound concrete box and lift it up 10 times? how about holding the universe ball, hold a 200 pound stone ball and walk with it? how about eagle wing (shoulder raise)? how about parting water (back delts)? thousand pound crusher (squat press)? reverse iron ox plows field (bench press)? bawang raises cauldron (shoulder press)? erlang carries mountain (squat)?

whats that? all these gongs can be done at a gym with a barbell? and needs hard work? fuk that, ill go contemplate on the pubic hairs of shi deyang, and how awesome he is. then ill jack off to his yinshou gun dvd.

[RenDaHai]

you kung fu hobby warriors, always, ALWAYS talk about the easiest stupidest gongs.

The skill of nightwalking is not easy at all. It requires incredible hip flexibility and lower back strength and flexibility. It is not as simple as going to the gym and isolating one muscle group. It doesn't just give you strength and flexibility it gives you the skill of walking silently in low profile. Now since the invention of electricity this may not be as useful as it once was. But I guarantee you will find it hard.

Eagles wings is not as simple as just shoulder raises with weight. It is both striking and lifting power. YOu cannot get into a strong stance and simply lift the weights, you must strike them into the lifted position and raise stance simultaneously. When you first try this you will feel like you have ripped all your muscles. It is effectively 'throwing' weight, not lifting.

Parting water you cannot isolate the delts in an excercise because it is as much about passing that strength through the wrist and fingers.

Pulling a tree you cannot lift a 200 pound weight because it is supposed to be an unliftable weight, so it is a tension excercise rather than actually lifting.