Questions for Graham

[LaRoux]

That wasn't the point. "It is not WC" is a nice way of saying we don't do that stupid sh!t because it won't work against real punches.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNZ2I...ature=youtu.be

What doesn't work against real punches is doing the majority of your training doing forms, wooden dummy and chi sao type training.

[LFJ]

What doesn't work against real punches is doing the majority of your training doing forms, wooden dummy and chi sao type training.

Right, but much less so silly isolation drills that hardly work even with a compliant partner.

[KPM]

Because I don't use paak-sau like that.

Dude! That wasn't the point! That is EXACTLY why it becomes so hard to carry on any kind of meaningful conversation! Stick to the POINT!

[k gledhill]

What doesn't work against real punches is doing the majority of your training doing forms, wooden dummy and chi sao type training.

Laroux you're ignorant. Worse, is this ignorance of yours is blinded by an ajenda of prejudice.

[KPM]

Right, but much less so silly isolation drills that hardly work even with a compliant partner.

"Silly isolation drills"???? Again, that is exactly why it is so hard to carry on a legitimate civil conversation here. Should we just resort to "flaming" again??? I've pointed out that isolation drills are an accepted part of Scientfic training in the sports world. I've given an example of the tennis player working on his or her backhand. Laroux/stickfigher (whoever the heck he is) pointed out that such drills are used in BJJ, Muay Thai, etc. And yet you dismiss them out of hand as "silly."

[LaRoux]

I would hope not, but thinking you're gonna do 4 things to the first jab like Phil shows or use a bong-sau... ...

Go through the fight videos that Phil has posted. You will find several examples of his guys doing exactly that.

[k gledhill]

"Silly isolation drills"???? Again, that is exactly why it is so hard to carry on a legitimate civil conversation here. Should we just resort to "flaming" again??? I've pointed out that isolation drills are an accepted part of Scientfic training in the sports world. I've given an example of the tennis player working on his or her backhand. Laroux/stickfigher (whoever the heck he is) pointed out that such drills are used in BJJ, Muay Thai, etc. And yet you dismiss them out of hand as "silly."

Application drills iow one move gets the same answer memorized , then a guy doubles up the jab or feints and hello that bong memory just gave me your floating ribs.

[KPM]

Application drills iow one move gets the same answer memorized , then a guy doubles up the jab or feints and hello that bong memory just gave me your floating ribs.

No. Did you read what I posted just a few posts up in this thread?

[k gledhill]

No. Did you read what I posted just a few posts up in this thread?

No disrespect Keith but you're still struggling to grasp Tray and our explanations.

[wingchunIan]

I don't like what the guys in the clip with the jab were doing but it would be interesting to hear feedback from someone in that lineage as to where they take that training. Finding out what doesn't work / where the limits are and what you need to work on more (e.g. footwork) is an incredibly important part of learning. If this is early training then its all good, maybe the next step is to face punches in bunches and full on sparring.

[LaRoux]

I don't like what the guys in the clip with the jab were doing but it would be interesting to hear feedback from someone in that lineage as to where they take that training. Finding out what doesn't work / where the limits are and what you need to work on more (e.g. footwork) is an incredibly important part of learning. If this is early training then its all good, maybe the next step is to face punches in bunches and full on sparring.

Here they are doing that:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyQH4M550M0

[LaRoux]

Application drills iow one move gets the same answer memorized , then a guy doubles up the jab or feints and hello that bong memory just gave me your floating ribs.

Clearly you have zero understanding and are completely ignorant about how real training works.

[k gledhill]

Clearly you have zero understanding and are completely ignorant about how real training works.

Clearly you're totally ignorant of ving tsun : ) and how real training works. See I can also be right ; ) opinions are like arseholes laroux everyone has one. Yours seems to be overly active lmao.

[sihing]

VT is for the most part development. What are we developing?

Structure = a stable frame by which we have the ability to accept force and give force, like a car, it has a frame so that the power of the engine can propel it forward/bkwrd, left or right, and go from point A to B. When in a crash it has the ability to fold and accept a certain amount of force while protecting the occupants, but this is limited, and cars are fixed objects, not dynamic like us Humans.

Mechanics = how we move, how we punch, kick, deflect, project. It's specific in VT so that we can gain some efficiency, non telegraphic movement, gain force within our movement (from body structure/ground), aim and line of attacks (we cut or shear obstructions away from our center on the way in, anything that goes around our projected "triangle" we beat them to the punch..)

Balance/Leverage/Recovery = We maintain a balanced frame, it's dynamic, but we don't lean in or lose integrity in what we are doing. When we meet force, it is channelled into our complete frame, not localized to the contact point. We recover to the place that our movement came from, this prevents over extension.

Simple/Direct/Efficiency = Self explanatory, just making ourselves less telegraphic, tight, simple and hard to see.

Now this is what we develop in a basic way when we train in VT, there are more things but this is just a simple list.

This is not application necessarily, some do look at it as application, but I don't. To learn how to apply the skill set above, you spar, or apply in realistic SD drilling, that is the next part, and up the the individual practicing...When someone asks me how to we handle a boxer, wrestler, kicker, etc...I tell them to go spar them, get in there with them, then you will know how your skill set can be used against that type of attack, we do have a general strategy for sure, get in close, take their space and hit, but ultimately nothing is better than getting in their with them and using what you have to know how to apply it, VT does have the answers for all of it IMO. So far this has worked for me and my guys, they have used it successfully against all those listed, of course, if someone is a pro or training much more it gets harder, nothing is guaranteed...as it's always your skills vs his skills..

J

[KPM]

Now this is what we develop in a basic way when we train in VT, there are more things but this is just a simple list. This is not application necessarily, some do look at it as application, but I don't. To learn how to apply the skill set above, you spar, or apply in realistic SD drilling, that is the next part, and up the the individual practicing

Well, James seems to agree with me.