Is Bong Sao a Mistake?

[KPM]

After you have raised your elbow and removed your opponent's arm control, you drop your elbow and use your hand to control his arm on top of his elbow joint. It's called "mantis arm".

Thanks for the clarification John! I still wouldn't call that a Bong Sao. I still think it is more of a Kup Jarn.

[Paddington]

Again the "attacker" seems to have no use of his right arm?
It really doesnt take much scrutiny, to see the futility of learning set responses to compliant attackers.

I agree that the attacker is being compliant for this demonstration. Would it work in a real situation? I don't know yet. Does cup jarn work when pressing down on the opponent? In my experience yes and at full speed with non-compliant partners but maybe not in the context of the video shown.

I also agree that learning 'complex' set responses is very dangerous and I have spent a lot of time thinking about this. I spent a long time last year not drilling set responses to see what would happen. Instead I trained just forms, punching wall bags and tennis balls on elastic and doing plenty of chi sau. I found that I accelerated past my peers and was viewed with suspicion, as people doubted that such gains were down to my solo efforts.

So, I agree with you T-ray but not in an absolute way. There are some responses that have to be drilled or 'set up' IMO, though the range and type of them is very narrow if you want them to be placed in the nervous and musculature systems, rather than engaging the brain.

[...] with an adrenaline dump and the unpredictable nature of street encounters, being able to perform such specific techniques in a real life situation is unrealistic.

Better to train VT methods and principals that you can actually make practical use of, rather than thinking you can use specific techniques for specific attacks in a real fight.

I do agree with you here and I speak from experience. For me I have to 'trial and error' it as I am Sifu-less and outside of reading forums and researching it, for the main part I have to work it out for myself; it is a painful way to learn!

[Paddington]

That clip is from an old VHS tape. The same information is also in the following DVD's.

Combat Shuai-Chiao DVD: Volume 1 ~ 3
By Master David Lin

http://www.combatshuaichiao.com/merchandise.html

Thanks for the information!

[YouKnowWho]

I agree that the attacker is being compliant for this demonstration. Would it work in a real situation? I don't know yet. Does cup jarn work when pressing down on the opponent? In my experience yes and at full speed with non-compliant partners but maybe not in the context of the video shown.

In order to make this move work,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6R3fCrjKNkc

you have to coordinate your

1. right front foot landing,
2. right elbow dropping, followed by
3. right elbow moving to your right horizontally (this part is very important), and
4. body sinking down,

all at the same time.

It takes partner training to be able to coordinate 1, 2, 3, and 4 as 1 move. Without partner training and with only "solo form training",

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEvo...ature=youtu.be

you assume that your move will work in street situation is extreme difficult if not impossible.

[Wayfaring]

Even Steven Seagal doesn't approve of this method.