Is Bong Sao a Mistake?

[YouKnowWho]

(Bong Sao) can also be used as trap or a way of baiting the opponent .

Actually you can use Bong Shou to bait your opponent's hand that comes in toward your raising elbow. You can then re-direct his arm to be under your other arm. It's a simple "arm drag" in wrestling.

[Mutant]

Actually you can use Bong Shou to bait your opponent's hand that comes in toward your raising elbow. You can then re-direct his arm to be under your other arm. It's a simple "arm drag" in wrestling.

You can ? ... Amazing. I would love to see that one.

We essentially do this in Pin Sun. That's one option that can play off of bong is to hook the hand behind the elbow or triceps and turn the opponent (while slightly torquing/turning yourself) to take the back &/or deliver a nice shot to the exposed flank. Its part of "turning style"

[Mutant]

The mistake (Bong Sao) can also be used as trap or a way of baiting the opponent .
If done correctly that would make you a Masterbaiter..lol

Ha! So that's the secret of the WC masters, it all makes sense now

[YouKnowWho]

We essentially do this in Pin Sun. That's one option that can play off of bong is to hook the hand behind the elbow or triceps and turn the opponent (while slightly torquing/turning yourself) to take the back &/or deliver a nice shot to the exposed flank. Its part of "turning style"

When you do that, you usually have your left hand "above" your right Bong wrist. This way, you can use your

- left hand to parry your opponent's "wrist grabbing arm".
- right Bong hand to "hook behind the elbow or triceps" of his "elbow grabbing arm",

and redirect his "elbow grabbing arm" to wherever that you want it to go.

[Happy Tiger]

Its not bong sau thats the mistake...its lop sau.

[Happy Tiger]

Its not bong sau thats the mistake...its lop sau.

In real fighting,I have uesd bong sau...never once lop sau.

[Happy Tiger]

In real fighting,I have uesd bong sau...never once lop sau.

To further this... it is what you do after bong sau that is likely the mistake.

[KPM]

Its not bong sau thats the mistake...its lop sau.

Going along with LFJ's idea that you should never actually stick to the opponent, I could see where one might say you will never have time to do the classic Bong/Lop sequence that we see so often in the PB videos. But even the Lop Sao is just a brief contact. So why do you feel that Lop Sao is a mistake?

[YouKnowWho]

Its not bong sau thats the mistake...its lop sau.

It's not Bong Shou or Lop Shou that's mistake. It's the concept of "Shou" that's mistake.

You should

- think about "how many different ways that you can use your hand to punch on your opponent's face".
- not think about "how many different ways that you can use your arm to block your opponent's punch".

The way that people think about this Shou and that Shou, it's just too "conservative" IMO.

[wingchunIan]

IMHO looking to do bong lap is the mistake. After the bong the rear hand should be looking to strike. If as it comes forward the opponents arm is still in the way then it is removed using lap whilst the bong arm cycles into a strike. Too many people hunt for the the bong lap combination.

[Happy Tiger]

Going along with LFJ's idea that you should never actually stick to the opponent, I could see where one might say you will never have time to do the classic Bong/Lop sequence that we see so often in the PB videos. But even the Lop Sao is just a brief contact. So why do you feel that Lop Sao is a mistake?

Its not the contact but the 'grab' where the trouble is. touch yes. grab never...cover even yes but grab no. As soon as I feel grab...I can use VT.
I need not remind any one PB cannot grab at all with one arm. No doubt an ultimatly liberating experience.

[Eric_H]

Its not the contact but the 'grab' where the trouble is. touch yes. grab never...cover even yes but grab no. As soon as I feel grab...I can use VT.
I need not remind any one PB cannot grab at all with one arm. No doubt an ultimatly liberating experience.

Are you speaking of grabbing with the thumb or grabbing at all?

You can lop w/o using the thumb joint and it doesn't impede WC employment at all. Performing Lop as a thumb-wrapping grab limits you to chin na style application in many cases, so I could see your point from that perspective.

[Happy Tiger]

Are you speaking of grabbing with the thumb or grabbing at all?

You can lop w/o using the thumb joint and it doesn't impede WC employment at all. Performing Lop as a thumb-wrapping grab limits you to chin na style application in many cases, so I could see your point from that perspective.

Well thats a good point. The proper 'lop' as taught to me is with a 'suicide' grip, thumb on the top...which is the closest you can come to a non commital grip. The more cover, the more risk.

[Wayfaring]

you don't thumb wrap in grappling for arm locks (kimura, americana) or for toe holds. the only thumb wrap grip I can think of that is used effectively is a wrist grip in the low region (opponent's wrist in the low region rather than mid or high).

[guy b.]

was fun! Sweaty, but fun. He trained drills full-out with me for about 2 hours. We collapsed afterwards and couldn't move - the next class had to kick us out - and then we went for a few beers, and I ended up needing to call my other half

WTF?