Health Benefits of Santi Shi

[Sihing73]

Hello,

I know that Hsing Yi practice of the Five fists is supposed to have health benefits.
Each fist is reputed to stimulate a specific organ.

My question is regarding the Santi Shi posture or Trinity Pole Standing.
Santi is the posture which originates the fists, perhaps I am not explaining it properly but essentially it is the standing posture taken in the beginning and the fists move from that posture.

Anyhow, I am wondering if there are any reported health benefits from performing just the Santi or even just doing Standing Postures such as Zhan Zhuang.

I am genuinely curious as I have started practicing the Santi this past week and it seems that I have seen a decrease in my blood sugar levels. I am wondering if this is related or simply a coincidence. Although, I have not made any changes to my diet or exercise and actually have taken less of my medication.

Any input would be appreciated.

[mawali]

Health status is more than one variable so any activity in conjunction with zhanzhuang and santishi is positive. Zhanzhuang training has great benefit with digestive problems in conjunction with 'normalizing the diet' (i.e. eating healthy food as opposed to what is considered SAD.

[YouKnowWho]

Common sense tell us that

- running is better than walking,
- walking is better than standing,
- standing is better than sitting,
- sitting is better than laying down,
- laying down is better than to be dead.

If you move a

- tree, that tree will die.
- person, that person will live longer.

If you walk 8 miles daily, in your

- 1st 4 miles, all your body problem will be detected.
- 2nd 4 miles, your body start to fix your problem.

"Moving" is the key for longevity and not "standing" (which is still better than "sitting"). You can train a lot of combat skill when you move.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGxptvJlubY

[Robinhood]

Hello,

I know that Hsing Yi practice of the Five fists is supposed to have health benefits.
Each fist is reputed to stimulate a specific organ.

My question is regarding the Santi Shi posture or Trinity Pole Standing.
Santi is the posture which originates the fists, perhaps I am not explaining it properly but essentially it is the standing posture taken in the beginning and the fists move from that posture.

Anyhow, I am wondering if there are any reported health benefits from performing just the Santi or even just doing Standing Postures such as Zhan Zhuang.

I am genuinely curious as I have started practicing the Santi this past week and it seems that I have seen a decrease in my blood sugar levels. I am wondering if this is related or simply a coincidence. Although, I have not made any changes to my diet or exercise and actually have taken less of my medication.

Any input would be appreciated.

Standing has many , many benefits that are not the same or avialiable from moving exercises, but like anything else, done wrong and benefits will vary. This probably is not the best place to ask about standing benefits, try some internal forums for better responses.

[MarathonTmatt]

I think I agree w/ YKW- that is a refreshing (and common sense) perspective to hear. I know one of my teachers, a Chinese doctor (who is older), walks for a few miles every morning. "Movement is the key to longevity."

But I would also note that a lot of people don't know how to even properly use their bodies in the first place (the public at large). a lot of people have bad posture when it comes to performing even basic tasks. Standing posture may be the first steps one can take to correct this. As a martial artist this is very important. You will be more kinetically comfortable in your own body and how to use it, and may even enhance your ability to issue martial power, depending on your experience (if you have never done martial art before for instance.)

Also in San Ti Shi your weight is on the back leg, you are working a stance w/ your knees unlocked, hands on guard Xing-Yi style. holding that for minutes on end is good conditioning for sure.

[YouKnowWho]

When you train "right leg forward, right hand forward" Santi Shi,

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...electedIndex=7

you should also train "right leg forward, left hand forward" (cross stance) Santi Shi.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...lectedIndex=11

[MarathonTmatt]

When you train "right leg forward, right hand forward" Santi Shi,

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...electedIndex=7

you should also train "right leg forward, left hand forward" (cross stance) Santi Shi.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...lectedIndex=11

Thank you Shifu!

The second example looks more compacted (equals more power building)!

[Miqi]

Zhan zhuang has many health benefits, but not if you just stand still. There's nothing magical about zhan zhuang - it's just intended to promote a certain feeling of resistance which is difficult to explain because it comes in harmony with increased relaxation.

Once you have the correct feeling you can play with the movement - either with movements so small that people will not be able to see you move, or with bigger movements, even walking.

"Common sense" in this case is quite wrong - zhan zhuang is an excellent, if over-emphasised exercise. By the latter I mean it should only really be a small part of your training, but some people like to pretend that it's the be all and end all, as if it will grant magic powers. If you don't do bag/pad work and sparring then there's nothing for zhan zhuang to improve in that sense.

I read an old Xing Yi master saying never hold the same posture for more than ten minutes, which is heresy to most yiquan people, but I agree.

[Matthew]

Hello,

I know that Hsing Yi practice of the Five fists is supposed to have health benefits.
Each fist is reputed to stimulate a specific organ.

My question is regarding the Santi Shi posture or Trinity Pole Standing.
Santi is the posture which originates the fists, perhaps I am not explaining it properly but essentially it is the standing posture taken in the beginning and the fists move from that posture.

Anyhow, I am wondering if there are any reported health benefits from performing just the Santi or even just doing Standing Postures such as Zhan Zhuang.

I am genuinely curious as I have started practicing the Santi this past week and it seems that I have seen a decrease in my blood sugar levels. I am wondering if this is related or simply a coincidence. Although, I have not made any changes to my diet or exercise and actually have taken less of my medication.

Any input would be appreciated.

I'm not sure about Santi, but did know that basic standing stake is regarded as a pillar in most nei-gong practices I'm aware of.

YiQuan founder (who basically learned lots of various NeiGong practices in his time and reportedly did a good amount of sparring/fighting) Wang Xiang Zhai has a student that claims they saw significant notably performance improvement in athletes who practiced it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx0UdZgP46k

The basic idea being (all IME/IMU) if you can stand, (with slow, comfortable nasal breathing for the most part) for an extended period of time, you cannot lie to yourself about whether or not your body is holding tension.

If your practice consists of instead going to hit the punching bags for an hour, or blow through only "Fa Li" external forceful forms and practices for a while - you can hold tension all the while.

So, to learn to melt the tension entirely is like learning to ensure the breaks aren't on when driving. Or to fine tune the vehicle. You're making efficiency in bodily practice at the basic physical level.

When it comes into self-cultivation practice, you are working at the mind-level to improve efficiency in mental processes.

[Miqi]

I'm not sure about Santi, but did know that basic standing stake is regarded as a pillar in most nei-gong practices I'm aware of.

YiQuan founder (who basically learned lots of various NeiGong practices in his time and reportedly did a good amount of sparring/fighting) Wang Xiang Zhai has a student that claims they saw significant notably performance improvement in athletes who practiced it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx0UdZgP46k

Yu Yong Nang, according to Wang Zhang Zhai's daughter, claims all kinds of things, like being able to affect people without touching them via qi projection. Actually, Wang even rejected the notion of qi towards the end of his life, as part of his drive to create a truly scientific martial art. If you want believe Yu, go ahead - it's the opposite of what Wang was trying to achieve.

The basic idea being (all IME/IMU) if you can stand, (with slow, comfortable nasal breathing for the most part) for an extended period of time, you cannot lie to yourself about whether or not your body is holding tension.

It's nothing to do with this at all. It's solely to do with physical and mental processes that have a practical training effect. These can be practiced without torturing oneself. All the bravado of holding through pain is just a side-show.

If your practice consists of instead going to hit the punching bags for an hour, or blow through only "Fa Li" external forceful forms and practices for a while - you can hold tension all the while.

So, to learn to melt the tension entirely is like learning to ensure the breaks aren't on when driving. Or to fine tune the vehicle. You're making efficiency in bodily practice at the basic physical level.

When it comes into self-cultivation practice, you are working at the mind-level to improve efficiency in mental processes.

There's a study to be done on all these theoretical analogies and tropes. If you don't actually show what you've achieved, then it's quite easy to dismiss people who "merely punch bags for an hour". Maybe you should demonstrate your results before speaking. Until then, I say that a combination of both is the correct way, and that it is absoloutely nothing about - with the greatest of ironies - telling lies to oneself. If only we could eliminate that from CMA!

[Sihing73]

Hello,

Thank you for the replies, some food for thought.

I am not advocating simply standing still alone. There are of course internal aspects, for example in Hsing Yi one learns to concentrate the energy in six different directions as well while standing in Santi.

Of course one should also do other exercises and practice as well. Standing is one piece of the pie not the whole.

My curiosity stems from noticing that since beginning Santi, with no other changes, my blood sugar levels seem to run lower than before. This leads me to wonder if there are some benefits to the practice or perhaps a combination of several things.

My understanding is that in Eastern arts or health methods, the focus is primarily on establishing balance to the body. Once balance is obtained then the body can work to heal itself. So my thinking was that perhaps standing in Santi was a way of re-establishing balance.

[Miqi]

Hello,

Thank you for the replies, some food for thought.

I am not advocating simply standing still alone. There are of course internal aspects, for example in Hsing Yi one learns to concentrate the energy in six different directions as well while standing in Santi.

Of course one should also do other exercises and practice as well. Standing is one piece of the pie not the whole.

My curiosity stems from noticing that since beginning Santi, with no other changes, my blood sugar levels seem to run lower than before. This leads me to wonder if there are some benefits to the practice or perhaps a combination of several things.

My understanding is that in Eastern arts or health methods, the focus is primarily on establishing balance to the body. Once balance is obtained then the body can work to heal itself. So my thinking was that perhaps standing in Santi was a way of re-establishing balance.

The mind and the body are amazing things. Sometimes it's just the fact that you recognise that something is out of balance, and begin to do something - it could be walking, waving your arms around or yoga - even just getting out and being more sociable - and some things start improving.

[Matthew]

Hello,

Thank you for the replies, some food for thought.

I am not advocating simply standing still alone. There are of course internal aspects, for example in Hsing Yi one learns to concentrate the energy in six different directions as well while standing in Santi.

Thanks, I noticed there are many slight variations on these basic ZZ, isn't it?

Either way, it seems they are postural improvements. I noticed many secondary/tertiary level physical responses after practicing consistently (better sleep, improved bowel movement consistency, reduced effort in some manual labor tasks, improved concentration)... but for your question about research it would be very hard to isolate these improvements against other life variables (job stressors, life changes, weather conditions, diet/sleep consistency, and other variables).

With those difficulty in variables for research, and the funding issue (funding alternative, free treatment, etc.) - isn't it just too hard to have some actual hard-cold facts on this?

If we experiment this ourselves and note improvement - isn't that already a great thing and worth sharing?

My curiosity stems from noticing that since beginning Santi, with no other changes, my blood sugar levels seem to run lower than before. This leads me to wonder if there are some benefits to the practice or perhaps a combination of several things.

My understanding is that in Eastern arts or health methods, the focus is primarily on establishing balance to the body. Once balance is obtained then the body can work to heal itself. So my thinking was that perhaps standing in Santi was a way of re-establishing balance.

The video I linked makes many similar such claims, and apparently the guy (YongNian) wrote a book based on his research. Not sure what parameters he set, how or if he controlled for variables, sample sizes, etc. but they discuss it here:
http://www.emptyflower.net/forums//i...showtopic=5140


Other teachers teaching these ZZ usually make similar claims.

I don't see anyone sticking to Miqi's unfounded claims that it is "over-valued" and the only thing people should do, well we have to take everyones claims with a grain of salt and try it out if we want to see what happens.

[YouKnowWho]

Do anybody truly believe that to stand still like this,

http://imageshack.us/a/img404/8081/c...ingposture.jpg

will give you better benefit than to move around like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jI_...ature=youtu.be

Please notice that when you are moving, your

- right hand has to coordinate with your left foot, and
- left hand has to coordinate with your right foot.

The outer 3 harmonies just cannot be trained in static ZZ.

[rett]

Anyhow, I am wondering if there are any reported health benefits from performing just the Santi or even just doing Standing Postures such as Zhan Zhuang.

A search on google scholar for the string "zhan zhuang" (with the quotation marks) appears to only turn up studies where one author is named "zhuang" and things like that. San Tishi doesn't appear to give anything relevent either (even spelled different ways).

However searching on the string "standing meditation" gives many results for papers studying health effects of standing meditation in the context of qigong.

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=...n&as_sdt=0%2C5

Hope this can be of help.