Jin Young and Wing Chun Blast

[LFJ]

Wow, Vaj! You properly used the quote function for the first time since 2004. Now just get rid of all those hyphens.

[sehing2]

Danny seems be a nice guy but has a very limited understanding of chi sao. It is analogous to agreeing to work on a jab defense drill and then I kick you in the groin. Since Danny persists in using this slap on everyone he works with, it would be advisable to begin the chi sao drill at a more extended bridge. The problem is that he is using a drill that requires both to understand the purpose and boundaries of the drill. Danny wants to fight from chi sao, so lengthen the starting bridge. As the bridge is shortened you should be uprooting if you are going to make it a fighting drill (again, which it is not).

[KPM]

Danny seems be a nice guy but has a very limited understanding of chi sao. It is analogous to agreeing to work on a jab defense drill and then I kick you in the groin.

No, I disagree. When Danny is putting his palm in their faces, it is during free Chi Sao. They are exchanging at random. A palm to the face is valid and shows the other guy has left an opening. It isn't analogous to kicking them in the groin at all. It was a valid shot, not a cheap shot. And that isn't fighting from Chi Sao. It is simple rolling and seeking the opening. If the other guy can't deal with the fact that Danny has freakishly long arms, that's there problem, not his!

[Buddha_Fist]

The problem is this:

Chi-Sao is simply a hand-coordination drill which already starts from an artificial body and hand position that will never be replicated in a fight. Given the artificial nature of the setup, it is possible to do a lot of things that have little value and/or no transfer to sparring ("Chi Sao tricks"). Tying somebody up is one of those; slapping with no knock-out power is another one. You can waste your time writing pages to justify this stuff, but your time will be better invested watching sparring videos and honestly asking yourself whether these slap-fests really add any value. Ask yourself what drills improve the attributes that will matter when you need to knock somebody out (this assumes punching power) quick, and then look at the time your training is dedicating to hone in on those attributes.

So this kind of Octopus Chi-Sao is worthless in my book.

Want to actually see whether somebody's Ving Tsun works? Simply spar and let all that babbling aside.

[sehing2]

Sparring is good, depending on your definition of sparring.

[Frost]

Sparring is good, depending on your definition of sparring.

so what's yours.....

[sihing]

The problem is this:

Chi-Sao is simply a hand-coordination drill which already starts from an artificial body and hand position that will never be replicated in a fight. Given the artificial nature of the setup, it is possible to do a lot of things that have little value and/or no transfer to sparring ("Chi Sao tricks"). Tying somebody up is one of those; slapping with no knock-out power is another one. You can waste your time writing pages to justify this stuff, but your time will be better invested watching sparring videos and honestly asking yourself whether these slap-fests really add any value. Ask yourself what drills improve the attributes that will matter when you need to knock somebody out (this assumes punching power) quick, and then look at the time your training is dedicating to hone in on those attributes.

So this kind of Octopus Chi-Sao is worthless in my book.

Want to actually see whether somebody's Ving Tsun works? Simply spar and let all that babbling aside.

Great post! A good article on Chi sau here.. http://vingtsunserbia.wordpress.com/...i-sao-pon-sao/ .

Chi sau is development, to bring about a skill set specific to VT, and from there the person uses that skill set in combat, VT=development, You= Application, VT is does not fight, YOU fight. Sparring is a drill as well. From the little that I saw in those Danny vids, he's fighting in his chi sau, no real skill seen...just my opinion

James

[sehing2]

"Want to actually see whether somebody's Ving Tsun works? Simply spar and let all that babbling aside."

While sparring using gloves, moving around, faking, jabbing, etc. does develop attributes it does not replicate or necessarily prepare you for street defense. It prepares you more for sport. Sparring has rules to protect the participants, so it does not really prove the effectiveness of anyone's wing chun.

[Buddha_Fist]

"Want to actually see whether somebody's Ving Tsun works? Simply spar and let all that babbling aside."

While sparring using gloves, moving around, faking, jabbing, etc. does develop attributes it does not replicate or necessarily prepare you for street defense. It prepares you more for sport. Sparring has rules to protect the participants, so it does not really prove the effectiveness of anyone's wing chun.

Yawn...........

[jeetsao]

Yawn...........

Yea..........Would rather train than argue.

[LaRoux]

"Want to actually see whether somebody's Ving Tsun works? Simply spar and let all that babbling aside."

While sparring using gloves, moving around, faking, jabbing, etc. does develop attributes it does not replicate or necessarily prepare you for street defense. It prepares you more for sport. Sparring has rules to protect the participants, so it does not really prove the effectiveness of anyone's wing chun.

Sparring is definitely not the be-all/end-all for street prep, but it sure prepares one for the street way better than does chi sao.

[LaRoux]

Great post! A good article on Chi sau here.. http://vingtsunserbia.wordpress.com/...i-sao-pon-sao/ .

Chi sau is development, to bring about a skill set specific to VT, and from there the person uses that skill set in combat, VT=development, You= Application, VT is does not fight, YOU fight. Sparring is a drill as well. From the little that I saw in those Danny vids, he's fighting in his chi sau, no real skill seen...just my opinion

James

You fight using the skills you learned to fight with.

Chi sao would be great for developing fighting skills if fighting was anything like chi sao, but it's not.

[YouKnowWho]

Sparring has rules to protect the participants, so it does not really prove the effectiveness of anyone's wing chun.

If you have landed your fist on your opponent's face 1000 times, the chance that your fist will be able to land on your opponent's face for the 1001 time will be high.

In mathematic, it's called "extrapolation".

[sehing2]

If you have landed your fist on your opponent's face 1000 times, the chance that your fist will be able to land on your opponent's face for the 1001 time will be high.

In mathematic, it's called "extrapolation".

It is the circumstances prior to landing the punch that have little connection to the reality of most street encounters.

[anerlich]

While sparring using gloves, moving around, faking, jabbing, etc. does develop attributes it does not replicate or necessarily prepare you for street defense.

Your answers so far for some reason don't seem to divulge your better methods of preparing for street defense.