Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 22

Thread: If you think in "black and white" you are wrong

  1. #1

    If you think in "black and white" you are wrong

    A consistent, major problem in discussions (and flame wars) here is that very few apparently appreciate nuance. They want it to be all black and white

    So if you have anything critical to say about CMA you must be a hater and also never learned the real stuff, right?

    “According to our research during the past few years, many techniques in the traditional systems are not practical. It is important not to be preoccupied with arguments of traditional versus modern techniques. It is also not a good idea to ‘protect’ traditional systems by tailoring the rules to exclude, for example, foreign styles“.
    This quote is from Professor Xia Bai-hua, who when I met him about 20 years ago was then president of the Chinese Wushu (Martial Arts) Association. Professor Xia had done a lot to introduce and grow Sanshou (fighting) programs in China, beginning with the Beijing Physical Culture Institute.

    Liu Jinsheng, the author of the 1935 “Chin Na Fa” manual (as translated by Tim Cartmell).

    In recent years, the central government has begun to promote traditional martial arts, and every province has established martial arts training halls. Besides Chinese wrestling, the most popular arts are the Shaolin and Wudang styles of kung fu, both of which have methods of solo practice. Yet the practical applications of these arts is a subject that is never breached. Those who have practiced these arts twenty or thirty years have never defeated anyone who has practiced Western boxing or judo. Why is this? It is because the practitioners of Shaolin and Wudang styles only pay attention to the beauty of their forms — they lack practical methods and spirit and have lost the true transmissions of their ancestors.
    Liu continues;

    In the Ming dynasty, men such as Qi Jiguang and Yu Dayou advocated this type of realistic practice and opposed any empty practice done for the sake of appearance. This is why these men have proud reputations in history.
    Mike Patterson's si-gung, in the footage I posted previously, stressed that forms were NEVER to be thought of as just movement, but ALWAYS by their fighting application....

    I have written at great length about my late teacher, Chan Tai-San. I have always presented him exactly as he was, the good, the bad and the ugly. The typical response to my writings has been either (1) talking about the bad things about him is somehow abandoning or disrespecting him or (2) I have no right to talk about the good things he did because I am no longer identified with nor teach traditional Kung Fu.

    It’s sort of sad that people can’t wrap their minds around a pretty simple idea. Chan Tai San was a fantastic example of what traditional kung fu was about and why it is where it is today. He was a good fighter with functional skills. This isn’t just “story” or “myth”. I personally saw the certificates showing he was All Military Sparring (Sanshou) Champion. In addition;

    - You can look up the 1954 Guangdong province sports almanac and see he took third in the provincial sparring championships that year

    - You can look up the Daily News and Newsday from 1982 and see a story about how he was attacked by guys with knives on 42nd street and put them in the hospital.

    Does this mean he was unbeatable? HELL NO. What I always found interesting about Chan Tai San was he NEVER told us a story about him winning a fight. Every story about his victories and achievements I heard from third parties (also making the claims much more credible!).

    When Chan Tai San told you a story, it was always about how he lost, often beaten pretty badly. I always believed that was one of Chan Tai San’s greatest contributions to us, teaching us that people lose, that we have limitations, but that we never give up because of those.

    When Chan Tai San did talk about fighting, the techniques he showed and the approaches he advocated would not surprise any fighter. He was light on his feet, he liked working from behind a jab, and he liked throwing uppercuts as you entered a clinch. He taught knees in the clinch. Many of his kicks were low kicks to the legs, sweeps and trips.

    Unfortunately, Chan Tai San taught forms a lot, and in those forms were often techniques that would NEVER work. What most people find even stranger, Chan Tai San KNEW they would NEVER work and was straight forward about it!

    I always found this strange, a waste of time. Why teach and practice things you know will never work? For Chan Tai San, the answer was “tradition”. Also, and people never wrap their minds around this one, to impress people who don’t know any better!!! Yes, that was something Chan Tai San told us.

    Back to General Qi Jiguang (1528-1587). He was the author of two books, “New Book of Effective Discipline” (1561) and “Actual Record of Training” (1571). While the modern martial arts student probably has never heard of General Qi or either of these books, they are pretty important because they reveal that even well before Qi’s time, the martial arts practiced in the villages as part of militia training had gradually evolved into a form of recreation as well, and had become characterized by the “flowery” movements.

    Yes, the term “flowery” appears to date back almost 500 years! Qi condemned these “flowery” martial arts as undisciplined and inappropriate for military use in combat and emphasized that “…in training troops, the pretty is not practical and the practical is not pretty…”

    Sounds familiar doesn’t it?

    Also note that General Qi’s training regimen included:
    1) Maintaining an overall strong fighting constitution.
    2) Strong hands and arms through training with heaver normal weapons.
    3) Strong feet and legs through running over 600 yards using ankle weights (bags of sand).
    4) Overall bodily strength and endurance by training while weighted down with
    heavier than normal armor.
    and finally
    5) Sparring!

    It’s a shame most students today have no idea about this stuff
    Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253

    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    well, like LKFMDC - he's a genuine Kung Fu Hero™
    Quote Originally Posted by Taixuquan99 View Post
    As much as I get annoyed when it gets derailed by the array of strange angry people that hover around him like moths, his good posts are some of my favorites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    I think he goes into a cave to meditate and recharge his chi...and bite the heads off of bats, of course....

  2. #2
    if you lost sparring 5 times in a row you would be beaten to death in qijiguangs army.

    25th generation inner door disciple of Chen Style Practical Wombat Method
    Officially certified by Ethiopian Orthodox patriarch Abune Mathias
    grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat™®LLC Practical Wombat Method. international academy retreat

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by lkfmdc View Post
    ........It’s a shame most students today have no idea about this stuff
    Are you CRAZY!!!

    Do you want me to get hurt!!!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Columbia, MO
    Posts
    809
    Mr. Ross,

    WAIT, you expect people to READ BOOKS, written in strange FOREIGN chicken scratch, use their BRAINS the analyze what they read, and not be DISAPPOINTED when their beliefs (formed by extensive armchair analysis of WWF matches) are challenged?

    **** YOU!


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Skid Row Adjacent
    Posts
    2,391
    Is this a repost?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    NW Arkansas
    Posts
    1,392
    Quote Originally Posted by wenshu View Post
    Is this a repost?
    Haha

    Sorry, Ross. I was thinking the same thing.
    It is better to have less thunder in the mouth and more lightning in the hand. - Apache Proverb

  7. #7
    In one sense or another everything on here is a repost.....

    LOL at that picture
    Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253

    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    well, like LKFMDC - he's a genuine Kung Fu Hero™
    Quote Originally Posted by Taixuquan99 View Post
    As much as I get annoyed when it gets derailed by the array of strange angry people that hover around him like moths, his good posts are some of my favorites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    I think he goes into a cave to meditate and recharge his chi...and bite the heads off of bats, of course....

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Skid Row Adjacent
    Posts
    2,391
    Would not a more appropriate title for this thread be "If you think in 'black and white' you are maybe slightly misguided"?

  9. #9
    How about "if you have extremely thin skin don't post on the internet"
    Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253

    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    well, like LKFMDC - he's a genuine Kung Fu Hero™
    Quote Originally Posted by Taixuquan99 View Post
    As much as I get annoyed when it gets derailed by the array of strange angry people that hover around him like moths, his good posts are some of my favorites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    I think he goes into a cave to meditate and recharge his chi...and bite the heads off of bats, of course....

  10. #10
    and apparently another one bites the dust
    Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253

    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    well, like LKFMDC - he's a genuine Kung Fu Hero™
    Quote Originally Posted by Taixuquan99 View Post
    As much as I get annoyed when it gets derailed by the array of strange angry people that hover around him like moths, his good posts are some of my favorites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    I think he goes into a cave to meditate and recharge his chi...and bite the heads off of bats, of course....

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Great Lakes State, U.S.A.
    Posts
    1,592
    funny. (laughs).

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    San Diego, CA 92130
    Posts
    16
    Cannot agree more.
    Any type of martial arts training should go back to the roots. If it is not effective in being "martial" than it should not be practiced as "martial arts".

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Rottweil, Germany
    Posts
    180
    Nice post Dave - thank you.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by FullPotentialMA View Post
    Cannot agree more.
    Any type of martial arts training should go back to the roots. If it is not effective in being "martial" than it should not be practiced as "martial arts".
    I would go one step further and say, if it is truly martial, it is not an art!

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R. Brown View Post
    I would go one step further and say, if it is truly martial, it is not an art!
    The term "martial arts" in relation to TCMA is a complicated story, the terms changed and those chagnes indicated changes in perception or attempts to change the perception of what TCMA was really about
    Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253

    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    well, like LKFMDC - he's a genuine Kung Fu Hero™
    Quote Originally Posted by Taixuquan99 View Post
    As much as I get annoyed when it gets derailed by the array of strange angry people that hover around him like moths, his good posts are some of my favorites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    I think he goes into a cave to meditate and recharge his chi...and bite the heads off of bats, of course....

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •