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Thread: Do you pull your leg back after kicking?

  1. #1
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    Do you pull your leg back after kicking?

    Sometime you may want to use your kick to set up your punch. In order to do so, you will need to move from your kicking range into your punching range. If you pull your kicking leg back, you will still be in your kicking range. Even if you can step in after that, it will take you an extra unnecessary step. If you don't pull your kicking leg back, your leg may be caught by your opponent, and you have to deal with it.

    What's your opinion on this?
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  2. #2
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    A lot of the kicks I throw are defensive distance creators to give me space, so for those I do pull back. When closing distance such as with thrusting or skip in type kicks I don't pull back but rather follow through in order to get inside. As for setting up kicks with punches it depends. If they are moving away from me after the punch then it's follow through. If I didn't make good contact and they are standing in place or moving sideways then I pull back.

  3. #3
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    I tend to see less of a clear distinction between kicking and punching range, I find it something of a false distinction.
    If you train to retract your leg it means you don't drop it down unless you intend to, which means you're less likely to get your clock cleaned by a counterpunch if you miss.
    "The man who stands for nothing is likely to fall for anything"
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    Sometime you may want to use your kick to set up your punch. In order to do so, you will need to move from your kicking range into your punching range. If you pull your kicking leg back, you will still be in your kicking range. Even if you can step in after that, it will take you an extra unnecessary step. If you don't pull your kicking leg back, your leg may be caught by your opponent, and you have to deal with it.

    What's your opinion on this?
    I know you are bored because you are asking another one of those simplified "either/or" questions again

    Depends on the type of kick, and what is your target, and what kind of body mechanics you can do.

    Is it a speed kick like a groin shot? Is it a power kick like round house to the thigh? Or is it a shin kick or cross kick that attacks the footwork? Is it a sweep? Do you sink your weight on your power kicks? How is the mobility of your footwork? Can you run and kick and take down your opponent with your footwork/kicks? Is it a round house to the knee or to the calf? Do you stick and press (tip kao) with your footwork?

  5. #5
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    Stop boring us with your longwindedness and just answer the question.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by -N- View Post
    I know you are bored because you are asking another one of those simplified "either/or" questions again
    I think this thread is at least more interested than whether Bruce Lee had beaten up someone or not. Simple question? Yes, but since it may be the 1st move of your initial attack, how to plan what to do next can be interest discussion.

    Yesterday when I trained in the park by myself. I drilled "side kick, turn back kick" combo. A guy (later on he told me that he was a Shodoken Karate guy) walked by me and said that I should pull my leg back after kicking. We then had some discussion about this issue.

    In the longfist system, when you throw your left side kick (or back kick) out, if your opponent uses his

    1. right arm to block it and make your body to spin to your left, you will borrow his spinning force, and use your right palm to strike on his neck.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_dyk-9Rh4Y

    2. left arm to block it and make your body to spin to your right, you will also borrow his spinning force, and use your right spin back fist to punch on his head.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HOjZ13M9T0

    In both cases, you don't pull your kicking leg back.

    Since the side kick is very easy to be caught, The moment that your opponent gets hold on your kicking leg, you can stick your leg behind his leading leg, put all your weight on that leg, and lift your back leg in the air. This way not only your opponent has to deal with your entire body weight, he also has to deal with your both free hands as well. Sine he will need to use at least one arm to hold on your leg, your 2 free hands will have advantage. It may help you to obtain your "clinching".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7UdDVcwWwg
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 10-20-2013 at 01:29 AM.
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  7. #7
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    YKW,
    In your 1st two examples, the kick has been blocked/redirected, so there wasn't an opportunity for you to retract the leg. For myself, most of the time ( but also depending on the kick, the level, etc.), I prefer to pull it back. Most of my round kicks, except maybe to the leg, I pull back, for example. Although I've sparred with some MT guys, I've never trained it, so I'm not going to try to mimic that style of kicking. And as for side/back kick, besides the risk of your leg getting caught, if you just drop it straight down:

    1. It creates the habit of pushing with your kick. IMO, in both bag work and sparring, retracting my side/back kicks after contact transfers a greater 'jolting force' into the target.

    2. Dropping it straight down can leave one vulnerable to a foot sweep as it's about to touch down.

    3. IMO, it leaves the leg hanging and the groin open a split second longer. Sometimes an opponent who is countering can ball-shot you, even unintentionally, if you leave it exposed too long.

    Anyway, that's my .02.

  8. #8
    Greetings,



    In this regard you are really not kicking. You are using your leg to:

    1- Check your opponents action much in the way a boxer uses his movements to cut of his opponents lateral movements: sometimes done with a jab.

    2- Offer a distraction to your opponent.

    In both situations, the withdrawal of the kicking leg can offer a window of opportunity for a counter. The move should be done with a rapid advance to a strike. The faster the better. To honor that, low kicks are favorable.


    mickey

  9. #9
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    If i want to set up a punch off of a kick sometimes I will follow an actual kick with the same kick but a feint. If the first kick was successful, or just not caught, the second kick of the same type can lure, then, depending on what you're doing, step down/in with the kick to follow with punch/clinch.
    For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.

  10. #10
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    A kick can be more than just a kick.

    If you step in, your opponent will sweep your leg. If you kick his leading knee joint, it will be harder for him to sweep you when you land that foot on the ground. To me, the reason that you prefer to use kick as step in is if you can put your opponent in defense mode, it will be safe for you to enter.
    http://johnswang.com

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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post

    Since the side kick is very easy to be caught,
    Side kick is not easy to catch if you thrust it and retract the leg.

    Different kicks require different mechanics, push kick will not work as intended if the leg is immediately retracted, snap kick will not work well if the foot is not retracted.

    Snapping kicks need to be retracted because there is always the danger your opponent can just "eat" the kick, grab your leg and take you down. It is much harder and riskier to try to eat more powerful kicks such as thrusting kicks or Thai roundhouse, so with those powerful kicks, retracting the leg is less crucial.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    Sometime you may want to use your kick to set up your punch. In order to do so, you will need to move from your kicking range into your punching range. If you pull your kicking leg back, you will still be in your kicking range. Even if you can step in after that, it will take you an extra unnecessary step. If you don't pull your kicking leg back, your leg may be caught by your opponent, and you have to deal with it.

    What's your opinion on this?

    It depends on what you want to do and what kind of sparring situation you are in. This thread is not more interesting than Bruce Leeroy vs wong jack man

  13. #13
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    depends on the kick. Some need to have the full drive through to be any good to begin with.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  14. #14
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    When you kick at your opponent's groin, your opponent drops his arm to block it. His face is open at that moment. If you pull your leg back, and then step forward, his arm will move back to cover his face already. Since you may have just 1/10 second window, you just don't have the luxury to pull your leg back in that situation.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    When you kick at your opponent's groin, your opponent drops his arm to block it. His face is open at that moment. If you pull your leg back, and then step forward, his arm will move back to cover his face already. Since you may have just 1/10 second window, you just don't have the luxury to pull your leg back in that situation.
    Kind of a supposition there don't you think? I mean, who knows what defense a guy will pull on move a-z? It doesn't matter if you are relentless in your attack and as long as you realize that in any conflict it might be you that winds up the "victim"
    Kung Fu is good for you.

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