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Thread: Kung Fu and fighting

  1. #1

    Kung Fu and fighting

    Here are some "ring fights" from Hong Kong featuring people form TCMA background

    Dai Sing Pek Gwa 1983

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qm5YPpVnM6c

    Kung Fu movie actor who also kickboxed, I would guess late 70's??

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHksx50Mtik

    There are a lot of things we can say about these clips, like
    1. Wow, kung fu guys fighting
    2. "kickboxing rules" without real knees, elbows, clinch or even throws
    3. but definitely NOt fake fights... these are real

    My perspective, you can improve the performances here, but it is at least fighting, it is an excellent start

    But from my perspective TCMA has not improved from here, they have gone in opposite direction....

    Fighting used to be "the norm"... but not any more
    Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253

    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    well, like LKFMDC - he's a genuine Kung Fu Hero™
    Quote Originally Posted by Taixuquan99 View Post
    As much as I get annoyed when it gets derailed by the array of strange angry people that hover around him like moths, his good posts are some of my favorites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    I think he goes into a cave to meditate and recharge his chi...and bite the heads off of bats, of course....

  2. #2
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    The TCMA tries to use health, self-cultivation, inner peace, and performance as excuse to avoid combat.

    I have never heard any boxer or wrestler ever talk about "self-cultivation". Why?
    http://johnswang.com

    More opinion -> more argument
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    The TCMA tries to use health, self-cultivation, inner peace, and performance as excuse to avoid combat.

    I have never heard any boxer or wrestler ever talk about "self-cultivation". Why?
    "self cultivation" and Taoist philosophy has been around a long time in Chinese martial art...

    by now, most evidence tells us the "boxers" in the Boxer Rebellion were more religious sect than real martial artists, martial arts was just their "con"

    But this "con" grew and grew and grew... big question is WHY?
    Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253

    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    well, like LKFMDC - he's a genuine Kung Fu Hero™
    Quote Originally Posted by Taixuquan99 View Post
    As much as I get annoyed when it gets derailed by the array of strange angry people that hover around him like moths, his good posts are some of my favorites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    I think he goes into a cave to meditate and recharge his chi...and bite the heads off of bats, of course....

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by lkfmdc View Post
    "self cultivation" and Taoist philosophy has been around a long time in Chinese martial art...

    by now, most evidence tells us the "boxers" in the Boxer Rebellion were more religious sect than real martial artists, martial arts was just their "con"

    But this "con" grew and grew and grew... big question is WHY?
    What is to avoid extinction?

    I'll take The Rapist for $200 Alex


  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by MightyB View Post
    What is to avoid extinction?
    I don't necessarily agree ... many arts escaped extinction by going in OPPOSITE direction, ie they became better at fighting!!!!
    Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253

    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    well, like LKFMDC - he's a genuine Kung Fu Hero™
    Quote Originally Posted by Taixuquan99 View Post
    As much as I get annoyed when it gets derailed by the array of strange angry people that hover around him like moths, his good posts are some of my favorites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    I think he goes into a cave to meditate and recharge his chi...and bite the heads off of bats, of course....

  6. #6
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    "Fighting used to be "the norm"... but not any more"
    `This is why the out look is not good.TCMA has lost the culture of fighting.
    We have all the drills,the skills,the conditioning,the forms with all the techniques inside them,encyclopedias worth of power generation theory and combat strategy,yet something falls short putting it all together.
    Not enough time is spent hitting and getting hit. I my TCMA training I think I must have crescent kicked my own hand thousands of times more than ever drilling it on a person.
    First smooth,then fast.
    Smooth is fast.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    The TCMA tries to use health, self-cultivation, inner peace, and performance as excuse to avoid combat.

    I have never heard any boxer or wrestler ever talk about "self-cultivation". Why?
    ask mike Tyson or chris benoit

    25th generation inner door disciple of Chen Style Practical Wombat Method
    Officially certified by Ethiopian Orthodox patriarch Abune Mathias
    grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat™®LLC Practical Wombat Method. international academy retreat

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by yeshe View Post
    "Fighting used to be "the norm"... but not any more"
    `This is why the out look is not good.TCMA has lost the culture of fighting.
    We have all the drills,the skills,the conditioning,the forms with all the techniques inside them,encyclopedias worth of power generation theory and combat strategy,yet something falls short putting it all together.
    Not enough time is spent hitting and getting hit. I my TCMA training I think I must have crescent kicked my own hand thousands of times more than ever drilling it on a person.
    Well, along same lines, here is my thinking also on this

    When I trained with CTS, I literally trained with him 6 days a week, about 5 to 6 hours with him... if 35% of what we did was not fighting or conditioning related I still had 65% of my time for those two things (I do however think I am being GEREROUS with 35%, we have too much clap trap in CMA)

    Today how many people do and hour class or an hour and 15 min classes only two times a week???

    But I also think it is the "culture".. an hour class in many CMA places these days is not the harsh training of the past

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g16EseISVRo
    Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253

    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    well, like LKFMDC - he's a genuine Kung Fu Hero™
    Quote Originally Posted by Taixuquan99 View Post
    As much as I get annoyed when it gets derailed by the array of strange angry people that hover around him like moths, his good posts are some of my favorites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    I think he goes into a cave to meditate and recharge his chi...and bite the heads off of bats, of course....

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    I have never heard any boxer or wrestler ever talk about "self-cultivation". Why?
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    ask mike Tyson
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwjQ0Igsh4k

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4A_cemYxck

    Mike Tyson is The Sage of Sages.

    I wish one of your guys had children so I could kick them in the fucking head or stomp on they testicles so you could feel my pain, cause thats the pain I have, wakin up everyday
    Last edited by wenshu; 10-28-2013 at 04:07 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkfmdc View Post
    Kung Fu movie actor who also kickboxed, I would guess late 70's??

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHksx50Mtik

    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    The TCMA tries to use health, self-cultivation, inner peace, and performance as excuse to avoid combat.

    I have never heard any boxer or wrestler ever talk about "self-cultivation". Why?
    http://youtu.be/zSwhhDUwTHQ

    Here's an interview with Chan Wai Man, the guy in the fight clip.

    He talks about his Triad days and the difference between old school ways and modern gangsters. He also talks about philosophy, changing perspectives, and what's important in life.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeshe View Post
    "Fighting used to be "the norm"... but not any more"
    `This is why the out look is not good.TCMA has lost the culture of fighting.
    We have all the drills,the skills,the conditioning,the forms with all the techniques inside them,encyclopedias worth of power generation theory and combat strategy,yet something falls short putting it all together.
    Not enough time is spent hitting and getting hit. I my TCMA training I think I must have crescent kicked my own hand thousands of times more than ever drilling it on a person.
    Quote Originally Posted by lkfmdc View Post
    Today how many people do and hour class or an hour and 15 min classes only two times a week???

    But I also think it is the "culture".. an hour class in many CMA places these days is not the harsh training of the past.
    It's what people make it to be.

    You guys are talking about those that took the T out of TCMA.

    Nothing wrong with TCMA.

    The stuff that some people do nowadays, that might be a different story.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by yeshe View Post
    "Fighting used to be "the norm"... but not any more"
    `This is why the out look is not good.TCMA has lost the culture of fighting.
    We have all the drills,the skills,the conditioning,the forms with all the techniques inside them,encyclopedias worth of power generation theory and combat strategy,yet something falls short putting it all together.
    Not enough time is spent hitting and getting hit. I my TCMA training I think I must have crescent kicked my own hand thousands of times more than ever drilling it on a person.
    Be the change you wish to see in the world.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkfmdc View Post
    "self cultivation" and Taoist philosophy has been around a long time in Chinese martial art...

    by now, most evidence tells us the "boxers" in the Boxer Rebellion were more religious sect than real martial artists, martial arts was just their "con"

    But this "con" grew and grew and grew... big question is WHY?
    Perhaps you or bawang might have more insight into this, but I've always felt the turn to "spirituality" was similar to other cultures that felt threatened but had no means to defend themselves. Within a century, China went from being the most powerful country in the world and a regional hegemony to a country being cut up by foreign powers. China moved on but many aspects Chinese culture did not. The mysteries of Daoist alchemy mirror that of "traditional" gongfu...step-by-step up a ladder where you can only see a few rungs above you, but you've been promised heaven at the top. It's a system that easily abused.

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    For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.

  15. #15
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    Chan wai man doesn't look too polished in that fight. Not that it mattered.

    David, who would you bet on:
    - boxer with only a little instruction but spars often with others
    - boxer with a lot of instruction but rarely spars

    To me shadowboxing = forms. I'm sure you've seen lots of guys that have decent form while shadowboxing and doing 4/6/8 counts etc, but look terrible when they are faced with an actual opponent.
    It is better to have less thunder in the mouth and more lightning in the hand. - Apache Proverb

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