Kung Fu and fighting

[gunbeatskroty]

To me shadowboxing = forms. I'm sure you've seen lots of guys that have decent form while shadowboxing and doing 4/6/8 counts etc, but look terrible when they are faced with an actual opponent.

Shadowboxing is more than forms as it mimics how the Boxer will actually fight. While TMA form can be partially this, but a lot of it isn't. There seems to be lots and lots of flowery air drawings and such, designed to look pretty but should get you whooped in a real fight.

[LaRoux]

Shadowboxing is more than forms as it mimics how the Boxer will actually fight. While TMA form can be partially this, but a lot of it isn't. There seems to be lots and lots of flowery air drawings and such, designed to look pretty but should get you whooped in a real fight.

Shadow boxing is a dynamic set of of moves and techniques that are individual to the practitioner and come from his actual experiences with fighting.

Forms are set sequences of moves that are the same for everyone performing that form and come from what someone thinks fighting is supposed to be like.

Shadow boxing is alive and relevant to application because it comes from application. Forms are dead and irrelevant to application because they come from what someone somewhere in the past thought fighting was supposed to be like.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Forms were developed for a mired of purposes including cataloging techniques and training moves that the founder of the form found that worked for him and perhaps his students.
Forms were never meant to be "etched in stone" and we can see that in how a teacher may have taught the same form in different ways to different students at different times.

Forms were meant to be "deconstructed" and the "bits and pieces" used in combat and trained more like "shadow boxing" than "performance".

Yes, something got lost in the translation from fighting systems to "whatever" MA are being trained for today and were marketed as in the past/currently.

[madhusudan]

Forms were meant to be "deconstructed" and the "bits and pieces" used in combat and trained more like "shadow boxing" than "performance".

It's funny that this needs to be said, but it does.

I showed a friend into MMA a palm set. His response was, "Yeah, but what if the fight doesn't go down that exact way?" This was, in his view, the ripest wisdom and a complete destruction of what I was doing.

To me it's a collection of techniques, with perhaps some of them being combinations. You can pretty much figure out which ones if you practice it for a while. It really doesn't even take that much effort.

On a side note, thanks to Bawang for the new sig. I've been waiting patiently in horse stance for a drop of nectar from your lexical fountain, and have finally been rewarded.

[David Jamieson]

Shadow boxing is a dynamic set of of moves and techniques that are individual to the practitioner and come from his actual experiences with fighting.

Forms are set sequences of moves that are the same for everyone performing that form and come from what someone thinks fighting is supposed to be like.

Shadow boxing is alive and relevant to application because it comes from application. Forms are dead and irrelevant to application because they come from what someone somewhere in the past thought fighting was supposed to be like.

shadow boxing is muscle memory and keep your hands up while keeping your heart rate and breathing rate up. it's not some mystical thing and it isn't a form. It drills in a solo fashion all the attributes an sets up the person doing it to understand stability, balance and correct structure of technique whilst in motion.

[gunbeatskroty]

Shadow boxing is a dynamic set of of moves and techniques that are individual to the practitioner and come from his actual experiences with fighting.

Forms are set sequences of moves that are the same for everyone performing that form and come from what someone thinks fighting is supposed to be like.

Shadow boxing is alive and relevant to application because it comes from application. Forms are dead and irrelevant to application because they come from what someone somewhere in the past thought fighting was supposed to be like.

Well said.

[gunbeatskroty]

Yes, something got lost in the translation from fighting systems to "whatever" MA are being trained for today and were marketed as in the past/currently.

That's a very good point as flashy, flowery forms adds a certain "pizazz" to whatever Kung-Fu style is being taught by whichever school.....more marketing than sound, fight techniques. I remember watching Run Run Shaw Kung-Fu movies in the theaters as a kid and really thought they was the greatest thing ever....until some kid punched me in the face for real one day in school and I didn't know what to do. Still remember it like it was yesterday.

[David Jamieson]

That's a very good point as flashy, flowery forms adds a certain "pizazz" to whatever Kung-Fu style is being taught by whichever school.....more marketing than sound, fight techniques. I remember watching Run Run Shaw Kung-Fu movies in the theaters as a kid and really thought they was the greatest thing ever....until some kid punched me in the face for real one day in school and I didn't know what to do. Still remember it like it was yesterday.

Did you just blame chop sockey movies for getting punched in the face in school?

lol

[bawang]

Did you just blame chop sockey movies for getting punched in the face in school?

lol

I got punched in the face in school for training "legitimate kung fu".

[David Jamieson]

I got punched in the face in school for training "legitimate kung fu".

consider it part of your training.
Also remember that a man who hasn't been punched in the face can't be trusted.

[bawang]

consider it part of your training.
Also remember that a man who hasn't been punched in the face can't be trusted.

I have learned that MY FACE IS MY SHIELD, MY HAIR IS MY SWORD

[bawang]

laroux criticizes forms for being a drill when the form is a drill


ok

[YouKnowWho]

The form is a set of drills. You don't train form, you only train drills. Here is a drill that you can take it out of Tantui and train it with partner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNlP...ature=youtu.be

[lkfmdc]

Form keeps you busy
It makes you do movements over and over

It teaches you copy movement

It also catalogues the style

but it is probably about 5% of total package

[YouKnowWho]

If you can create a 20 moves form that you use the

- 1st move to set up your 2nd move,
- 2nd move to set up your 3rd move,
- ...,
- 19th move to set up your 20th move,

you are very good. The best one that I can come up are only 12 moves. Does anybody like to give it a try?