UFC 1-4 allowed all strikes & pressure points

[MysticNinjaJay]

But 2 guys did bite Royce Gracie when they were caught. Jason Delucia (Kung-Fu) was caught in an armbar I believe. And Remco Pardo, a gi choke for rear mount. You can see them both ending up tapping like crazy when the biting didn't do squat. The ref had to jump in and use force to get Gracie off of them. Both incidents in UFC 2.

Not sure if there were others, as sometimes people didn't talk about it.

Gracie also used a cheap move in UFC 3 when he pulled on Kimo's ponytail to get out of a tight spot and/or gain leverage. He even ripped the ponytail off of his scalp. Gracie beat him, but Kimo messed up Gracie bad enough that he couldn't fight the 2nd fight.

Gerard Gordeau bit Royce Gracie during the final match at UFC 1. In retaliation Royce held his choke for a couple extra seconds. Even though he won he was visibly angry and scolded Gordeau for the ear bite. Gordeau also blinded a fighter
with by eye gouging at a different MMA event.

I have the first 6 UFC events on DVD and plan to collect more.

They really are an eye opener showing the importance of rules. A fight can easily turn in to a farce because of the rules or be extremely dangerous for the fighters.

[gunbeatskroty]

Gerard Gordeau bit Royce Gracie during the final match at UFC 1.

I remember this guy. He's supposed to be a big name standup fighter too, yet he resorted to fighting like a woman. Remco Pardieu and Jason DeLucia also bit Gracie.

They really are an eye opener showing the importance of rules. A fight can easily turn in to a farce because of the rules or be extremely dangerous for the fighters.

UFC 1-4 showed that biting doesn't do much in a fight. Adrenaline takes care of the pain. Like this guy in a streetfight....he's not even an amateur fighter, just some dude in the street that got his ear bit off....no big deal, the fight continues and he wins (then gets tased by cops): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pLRaB9hxDY

Eye gouging does work, but Gracie would always get the dominant position and have much better leverage to eye gouge. Many people who've never fought thinks eye strikes, throat strikes, nut strikes, etc. can quickly end fights....most of the time they don't.

[Frost]

haha yea....but a lot of these "Too Deadly for Sports Fighting" masters of chopsocky always cry about too many rules in the UFC....when UFC 1-4 let you do just about everything. And Vale Tudo was even more brutal.

again the 90s called and wants its thread back, this thread has been done to death, and the fact remains those who buried their heads in the sand when it was first raised still bury their heads these days,

[gunbeatskroty]

again the 90s called and wants its thread back, this thread has been done to death, and the fact remains those who buried their heads in the sand when it was first raised still bury their heads these days,

you must be lonely.

[Kevin73]

I remember this guy. He's supposed to be a big name standup fighter too, yet he resorted to fighting like a woman. Remco Pardieu and Jason DeLucia also bit Gracie.



UFC 1-4 showed that biting doesn't do much in a fight. Adrenaline takes care of the pain. Like this guy in a streetfight....he's not even an amateur fighter, just some dude in the street that got his ear bit off....no big deal, the fight continues and he wins (then gets tased by cops): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pLRaB9hxDY

Eye gouging does work, but Gracie would always get the dominant position and have much better leverage to eye gouge. Many people who've never fought thinks eye strikes, throat strikes, nut strikes, etc. can quickly end fights....most of the time they don't.

Talking about eye gouges, I remember reading an inteview with Dan Severn one time about his first fight with Royce Gracie and he made the comment that it would have been so easy to just eye gouge Royce to get out of the move, but he knew it was only a sport and not life/death.

[Kevin73]

I can't speak for 1 to 3, but we were invited to UFC 4 and sent the "rules" they were actually 7 pages of rules....

I have never seen definitive proof. But, I have been told that it was the same for UFC's 1-3. There were a bunch of "unwritten rules" that were not advertised for fighter safety, but they still billed it as "no rules"

There were alot of things listed that people think were allowed that weren't.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I have read the same thing by fighters who were involed with the first UFC. They advertised it as "no rules", but there was kind of an unwritten rule that it was a sport contest and you just didn't do that.

The reality is that the more rules there are, the more limited the BETTER fighters are.
If you have two fighters and one is better than the other, the degree of rules is irrelevant.
Think about it.
If BOTH fighters can do whatever they want, what is to keep the BETTER fighter from doing the same stuff? nothing and he can do it better.

Rules even the playing field, which gives the "less better" fighter more of a sporting chance.

In short, the better fighter would win regardless of rules and to think otherwise doesn't make a whole lot of sense, does it?

[gunbeatskroty]

I have never seen definitive proof. But, I have been told that it was the same for UFC's 1-3. There were a bunch of "unwritten rules" that were not advertised for fighter safety, but they still billed it as "no rules"

There were alot of things listed that people think were allowed that weren't.

Well can you tell us SPECIFICALLY which things that I listed (or didn't) that weren't allowed?

[gunbeatskroty]

Talking about eye gouges, I remember reading an inteview with Dan Severn one time about his first fight with Royce Gracie and he made the comment that it would have been so easy to just eye gouge Royce to get out of the move, but he knew it was only a sport and not life/death.

Well common sense dictates that Royce Gracie could have eye gouged the crap out of Dan Severn just the same but probably better as he's usually the one who's in the better position to do so. The reason that Severn didn't eye gouge is because he's not a woman who's about to be raped or something, that he'd even think about fighting like one.

It's like someone boasting about what a great Martial Artist they are and then when it's time to fight, they fight like a woman who's getting raped and starts biting at nutsacks and such. Yea, I really want to pay money to join his gym right? Dan Severn is a warrior. While Kung-Fu "expert" Jason DeLucia did indeed bite Gracie and all that got him was a dislocated elbow.

[gunbeatskroty]

The reality is that the more rules there are, the more limited the BETTER fighters are.

In short, the better fighter would win regardless of rules and to think otherwise doesn't make a whole lot of sense, does it?

Very true, a lot of people don't realize that MMA has evolved a great deal since the days of Gracie domination with BJJ, TWENTY YEARS ago. It's mostly fought standup now. But even in the days when BJJ dominated, most people who thinks that all it takes is eye gouging or biting in order to escape a bad position are just ignorant. And if the hold is locked in, a simple choke hold is a death move.

Worse are the ones who thinks that MMA fighters will automatically pull guard in the streets because when they watch MMA, they are really clueless as to what's happening most of the time, especially when it goes to the ground.

[Kevin73]

Well can you tell us SPECIFICALLY which things that I listed (or didn't) that weren't allowed?

In the first UFC, the "unofficial rules" were no biting, no eye gouges and no groin shots.

I have also heard that neck/throat strikes were not permitted.

Stuff that all makes sense to have prohibited. But, just pointing out that there was alot of behind the scenes stuff that wasn't ever advertised in their "no rules" competition.

[Kevin73]

The reality is that the more rules there are, the more limited the BETTER fighters are.
If you have two fighters and one is better than the other, the degree of rules is irrelevant.
Think about it.
If BOTH fighters can do whatever they want, what is to keep the BETTER fighter from doing the same stuff? nothing and he can do it better.

Rules even the playing field, which gives the "less better" fighter more of a sporting chance.

In short, the better fighter would win regardless of rules and to think otherwise doesn't make a whole lot of sense, does it?

We are in agreement on this one. I was just pointing out that many people have said you never see X in the UFC and in UFC 1 it was allowed and they would have done it. Things you do for self-defense in a life threatening situation are very different than a sporting contest. All of the fighters realized it and pretty much abided by it.

[Kevin73]

Well common sense dictates that Royce Gracie could have eye gouged the crap out of Dan Severn just the same but probably better as he's usually the one who's in the better position to do so. The reason that Severn didn't eye gouge is because he's not a woman who's about to be raped or something, that he'd even think about fighting like one. It's like someone boasting about what a great Martial Artist they are and then when it's time to fight, they fight like a woman who's getting raped and starts biting at nutsacks and such. Yea, I really want to pay money to join his gym right? Dan Severn is a warrior. While Kung-Fu "expert" Jason DeLucia did indeed bite Gracie and all that got him was a dislocated elbow.

He did think about it. Again, it comes back to the difference between sport and self-defense.

The main premise of this thread was why didn't you see "X" in the first UFC's. Just pointing out that there were alot of things that you didn't see because it was a sporting competition.

NOT saying that there is not overlap or that the skills you develop fighting MMA don't prepare you for "the street" (wherever that magical place is). Just that it isn't a clear cut thing that if you don't see something in the UFC that it means it automatically doesn't work or that if you do see something in the UFC that it is the end all for S-D.

[Kevin73]

As to "pressure points", it depends on how you are defining it.

If you mean some "magical spot" that you barely touch or do a vulcan pinch and they just pass out, then "NO" you will not see pressure points anywhere outside of a compliant demo.

If you mean spots on the human body that are weaker due to their structure or the nerves running closer to the surface than you do see those.

Here is the fight between Robbie Lawler and Tiki. Go to about the 1:30 mark and it shows the fight replay. Lawler hits him with a wide swing, which in TMA would be called a ridgehand to the side of Tiki's neck. This is the same spot that is taught to LEO's across the country as a pressure point tactic to KO a suspect.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R08z0PIUUNA

We had a local police officer who used to compete a few years ago professionally in MMA and would show how to combine certain pressure points with regular techniques to get more bang for your buck. It didn't replace the good old fashioned basic techniques, but it was kind of a bonus that you could use in certain cases.

[Frost]

In the first UFC, the "unofficial rules" were no biting, no eye gouges and no groin shots.

I have also heard that neck/throat strikes were not permitted.

Stuff that all makes sense to have prohibited. But, just pointing out that there was alot of behind the scenes stuff that wasn't ever advertised in their "no rules" competition.

and yet there was biting, and groin shots in the early ufcs and no fighter was thrown out of the tournement, so i call bull unless you can actually point to interviews where fighters said this and not just i have heard from sources ....

Hell in the first ufc the ref throw the towel back out of the ring at one point

The point is even with really limited rules TMA got its backside handed to it in both the early UFCs and the pride events, and those who did try dirty tactics in both events got their arms brocken for thier trouble