TWC vs. Boxing

[Faux Newbie]

That "in between" is what the JKD guys call "trapping range." Punching to Trapping to Stand-up Grappling/Clinching. But interestingly, some of the more "contemporary" JKD guys like Burton Richardson have realized that in modern day usage against skilled MMA types that "trapping range" just doesn't happen very often. So they have pretty much abandoned it. A good MMA guy goes from punching right to clinching and "dirty boxing." And they are pretty good at keeping anyone else from functioning at that "trapping range" as well. Since most Wing Chun people see the "trapping range" as their forte, this can be a problem! I think that's why when we watch video footage of Wing Chun guys sparring it often doesn't look like the Wing Chun they use in training. And when guys like Alan Orr actually make their Wing Chun work against MMA types in that "trapping range", they still get accused of not looking like Wing Chun!

As far as "stuff for the outer and inner ranges from that", the "outer range" is punching and kicking. When TWC guys work their primary game plan from there they get accused of being "Wing Chun kickboxers" or of "chasing hands." The "inner range" is clinching and standing grappling, something that most Wing Chun guys don't do. And ironically, when Alan Orr and his guys actually train for that, they are accused of "not doing Wing Chun." So you see, its kind of a dilemma!

If you fight primarily from the punching/kicking range you are a kickboxer and "chasing hands" regardless of what you do. If you fight primarily in the clinching range you are a grappler. That leaves Wing Chun with the trapping range, which doesn't happen very often in a real fight against a skilled opponent!

At least that's one way to look at it. I'm sure other's here will set me straight!

Great post. I'm not a wing chun guy, so I don't know the social norms here, am I required to call you a revisionist at this point, or will great post suffice?

[KPM]

Why is that?? is it because people don’t train it, or is it because most wing chun simply doesn’t have a clinch game or and outside game, it operates in that no mans land that so many southern arts operate in, which only really works when your opponent also plays the same game?

All of the above! Depending on which Wing Chun you are talking about! TWC has a decent outside game, and CSL WC trains to avoid the clinch. I don't know enough about HFY, but given that it is somewhat similar to TWC I would assume it has a decent outside game as well. PB/WSL VT also seems to have a decent outside game. As much as they probably wouldn't admit, PB seems to move to the blindside and disrupt his opponent's balance somewhat like TWC. In fact, now that I think about it, he could be described as using the TWC B.O.E.C. strategy in most of the clips showing him demo'ing! But that's a topic for another discussion.

[Phil Redmond]

It would be interesting to see how Philipp Bayer deals with punches from pre-contact range. I can only find chi sao clips online.

[KPM]

It would be interesting to see how Philipp Bayer deals with punches from pre-contact range. I can only find chi sao clips online.

I agree. What little I have seen seems to be like most YMWCK....just step right up to the contact range and get to business!