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Thread: Daoist Alchemy and TCMA footwork

  1. #1

    Daoist Alchemy and TCMA footwork

    The north-south axis (Jih Wu)
    The seven star (Chat Sing)
    Baat Gwa / Ga Gua
    Ng Haan / Wu Xing (5 elements / phases)

    Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
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    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    well, like LKFMDC - he's a genuine Kung Fu Hero™
    Quote Originally Posted by Taixuquan99 View Post
    As much as I get annoyed when it gets derailed by the array of strange angry people that hover around him like moths, his good posts are some of my favorites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    I think he goes into a cave to meditate and recharge his chi...and bite the heads off of bats, of course....

  2. #2
    I think in your mind you know how to train the real deal but at your heart you seem to be a tcma mental fantasizer

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkfmdc View Post
    Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
    There's one aspect of Chinese philosophy that promotes accordance with nature and spontaneity, and another that claims no phenomenon can escape the power of the human mind to categorize and systematize it.

    One of my teachers in China asked me one day if I could explain how (Western) boxing uses five elements. I told him we haven't used element theory to explain martial arts for at least 300 years. He looked at me quite seriously and said "This shows Chinese martial arts are inherently superior." It was truly a "lolwut" moment.

    Showing how things relate to qixing, liuhe, wuxing, etc in China is a way of "legitimizing" knowledge.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by pazman View Post
    There's one aspect of Chinese philosophy that promotes accordance with nature and spontaneity, and another that claims no phenomenon can escape the power of the human mind to categorize and systematize it.

    One of my teachers in China asked me one day if I could explain how (Western) boxing uses five elements. I told him we haven't used element theory to explain martial arts for at least 300 years. He looked at me quite seriously and said "This shows Chinese martial arts are inherently superior." It was truly a "lolwut" moment.

    Showing how things relate to qixing, liuhe, wuxing, etc in China is a way of "legitimizing" knowledge.
    when Chinese boxer struggles to progress, he resorts to Taoist magic. when western boxer struggles to progress, he ups the dose.

    25th generation inner door disciple of Chen Style Practical Wombat Method
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  5. #5
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    scribblings on papers and the musings of loons has little to do with the urgency of fisticuffs.

    Basing footwork on cosmology instead of basing it on what works in conflict is really out there.

    Also, I'd give a nickel, a shiny one, to anyone who could articulate the manifest benefits of using star charts in their boxing regimen. lol

    this is the aspect of Kung fu that is rubbish in my opinion and yes, it takes away from spending time conditioning, training, sparring, doing something actually useful to the pursuit.

    ghosts, goblins, aliens etc are for immature fearful minds. All phenomena is illusion. Do the work, don't shirk.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    when Chinese boxer struggles to progress, he resorts to Taoist magic. when western boxer struggles to progress, he ups the dose.
    Didn't Taoist alchemists first distill testosterone from urine over 2000 years ago?

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    Quote Originally Posted by wenshu View Post
    Didn't Taoist alchemists first distill testosterone from urine over 2000 years ago?
    Dunno about that. But they did cook eggs in it.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

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    The Autumn Mineral

    The use of urine as medicine has along history in many cultures but the extraction of substances from urine, specifically hormones, at this early date is unique to the Chinese. The Chinese considered urine to be a part of blood and as such contained properties of the blood. Thus, they concluded its value in treatment of disease. The types of urine used are specified: male or female, age and diet were all of concern. Early references to chhiu shih appear in print from 125 BC, the time of Liu-An, reputed father of autumn mineral, Prince of Huai Nan. Here is an excerpt from the writings of LiShih-Chen speaking of the origins of the term chhiu shih (autumn mineral):

    The term was really first used by the Prince of Huai-Nan. (Liu-An) named one of his tan (elixirs) chhiu shih, to express its white color and its solidity. Recently people have purified the urinary precipitates (jen chungpai) to a white substance which is also called chhiu shih, to indicate that like the urine itself it is derived from the excess of the nutrient essentialsof the vital forces (ching chhi). The iatro-chemists repeat the process of sublimation (sheng ta), and the best product is called chhiu ping. The idea(of the initial concentration) was derived from the evaporation of sea-water in the production of salt. Indeed there are adepts who place (certain)salts in a reaction-vessel and apply heat to obtain a substitute product. It is important to know the difference between the real product and the false one.1

    There are quite a number of recipes for the Autumn mineral included in this volume.They describe in detail a variety of techniques, however there are two main differentiations, one using heat to sublimate, called yang lien and one using coolness or room temperature to precipitate, called yin lien. In their words, they were extracting the yin within yang and the yang within yin. By using specific temperatures the steroids remained stable and other inactive materials separated from them. Another recipe mentions the use of saponins to precipitate solids, a technique not utilized in Europe until the 1900’s. The end result of the two different processes: they were able to extract two separate substances, gonadotropin or anterior pituitary hormones, and sex hormones,androgens and estrogens. Needham’s knowledge as a microbiologist comes though in his analysis of these recipes and he explains in terms of modern chemistry what they were achieving in these concoctions. Recipes for autumn mineral appear in print from +1025and on. They are fascinating to read, revealing the theories of yin and yang and fiveelements on which they are clearly based. The oldest written one (+1025) follows:

    Collect ten tan (over150 gallons) of male urine and set up a largeevaporating pan in an empty room. Fix on top of it a deep earthenwarestill, luting the edges together with paper-pulp and lime so that when it has
    dried no steam can escape. Fill the evaporating basin 70 to 80 percent fullwith urine, and heat strongly from below, setting a man to watch it. If itfroths over, add small amounts of cold urine. It must not be allowed tooverflow. The dry residue is jen chung pai. Put some of this, finelypowdered, into a good earthenware jar and proceed according to themethod of sealing and subliming by placing the whole in a stove andheating with charcoal. About two or three ounces (of sublimate) will beobtained. Grind this to a powder, and mix with date-flesh to make pills thesize of a mung bean. For each dose take five to seven pills with warmwine or soup before breakfast.

    The autumn mineral was used for treating a wide range of conditions, much as we use bht today: hypogonadism, impotence, sex reversals (where males spontaneously turned into females or vice versa, a phenomenon well known in ancient China), hermaphroditism, spermatorrhea, dysmenorrhea, leucorrhea,sexual debility, and even apparently stimulating the growth of the beard(since the Chinese knew that men grew beards as a result of having testicles and ceased to do so when castrated).3
    http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...im&hl=en&gl=uk

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    this is the aspect of Kung fu that is rubbish in my opinion and yes, it takes away from spending time conditioning, training, sparring, doing something actually useful to the pursuit.
    These are universal theories, they apply to all aspects of ancient Chinese culture.

    You can apply these theories to boxing, but you can also apply them to any other thing.

    Say calligraphy for example.

    If you can apply 5 elements to calligraphy and to Wushu, then indirectly you can apply the knowledge of calligraphy to the art of Wushu, or vice versa.

    These theories then become a language over which all art forms can communicate with each other. Thus to master one art with combined knowledge of these theories you can have profound insight into other arts you have not experienced directly. This is of course useful to your life. As I have said many times before Chinese Kung Fu can not be so simply labelled 'Martial Art'.

    One cannot practice physically all day every day, musing on theory does not need to take away from training time.
    Last edited by RenDaHai; 11-04-2013 at 09:09 AM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    when Chinese boxer struggles to progress, he resorts to Taoist magic. when western boxer struggles to progress, he ups the dose.
    At the professional level, dosing up is cross cultural, as is invoking false, foreign gods.


  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by wenshu View Post
    Didn't Taoist alchemists first distill testosterone from urine over 2000 years ago?
    in traditional kung fu mainly raw animal testicles + alcohol

    and opium before lei tai fight

    Quote Originally Posted by pazman View Post
    At the professional level, dosing up is cross cultural, as is invoking false, foreign gods.
    its ok, i pray to black jesus.
    Last edited by bawang; 11-04-2013 at 11:53 AM.

    25th generation inner door disciple of Chen Style Practical Wombat Method
    Officially certified by Ethiopian Orthodox patriarch Abune Mathias
    grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat™®LLC Practical Wombat Method. international academy retreat

  12. #12
    scribblings on papers and the musings of loons has little to do with the urgency of fisticuffs.
    I highly doubt you know anything about fisticuffs aside from what you've read or seen in movies. just sayin.

  13. #13
    Well, going back to my OP...

    I can demonstrate some very effective footwork, which I could explain via these theories ....

    did theory create them OR

    did the footwork always exist and they just found a way to explain them via these things?

    Which came first
    Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253

    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    well, like LKFMDC - he's a genuine Kung Fu Hero™
    Quote Originally Posted by Taixuquan99 View Post
    As much as I get annoyed when it gets derailed by the array of strange angry people that hover around him like moths, his good posts are some of my favorites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    I think he goes into a cave to meditate and recharge his chi...and bite the heads off of bats, of course....

  14. #14
    did the footwork always exist and they just found a way to explain them via these things?

    Which came first
    Simple honest question. Does it matter? in my opinion it shouldn't. as long as it exists

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Snipsky View Post
    Simple honest question. Does it matter? in my opinion it shouldn't. as long as it exists
    honest answer...

    in one sense, no it doesn't at all, I have tons of successful fighters who are not aware of these concepts...

    yet sometimes it is useful as an instructor to have these ideas in my mind...

    so maybe it matters based upon where you are at
    Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253

    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    well, like LKFMDC - he's a genuine Kung Fu Hero™
    Quote Originally Posted by Taixuquan99 View Post
    As much as I get annoyed when it gets derailed by the array of strange angry people that hover around him like moths, his good posts are some of my favorites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    I think he goes into a cave to meditate and recharge his chi...and bite the heads off of bats, of course....

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