Obamacare website

[SoCo KungFu]

You know your shit is weak when you have to attack the website rather than the bill itself. Still waiting to hear a republican offer up a better idea. Apparently the Heritage Foundation creation isn't "conservative" enough. What a sad joke. Anyone who thought such a monumental change in policy ever had a chance of a smooth transition is a moron anyways. Most of these guys know that, they're just being opportunists. I have a lot of criticism for Obama, but the ACA isn't one of them. At least not the way it's being attacked from the right. My real issue with the ACA is that it doesn't go far enough. At the very least it should have had a public option. Obama can blame himself for that one though, he compromised when he didn't have to with some fucked up expectation of getting some bipartisan love from the other end. The GOP are like your loser uncle. Give an inch, they want a yard. Give a yard, they want a mile. It's an old tactic. Drag the center to your side and criticise everyone and everything so much that it starts to seem reasonable to those who have short memories.

Basically. You know, there are some things that make me so glad to be out of the south. If only president drone strike stuck to his gun about single payer. The rest of the civilized world seems to be a pretty good stress test. But then, when the average American can't seem to place the states on a map, I have little faith they know anything about the going on's outside the borders of their immediate 2-3 city blocks.

[Syn7]

Heard Allen West encapsulate the alternatives several days ago:

1) Interstate portability
2) Tort reform and liability caps
3) Tax exempt medical savings accounts
4) Medical vouchering

Interstate portability alone would make premiums go down a lot because a person could tailor a plan from different insurance companies. I have also heard other politicians offer these four counts as alternatives. Of course, some people might not consider these valid alternatives and consider a single payer system as the only valid alternative. When I was in practice in 92-93 I also argued these alternatives to the health care act being lobbied at that time. So these ideas are not new. There are many private sector, free market solutions available. It just depends on what a person believes and wants.

Yeah but then you end up with privates in some states who have shitty laws selling cheap shitty plans like what the ACA is trying to get rid of. At least before you had to buy within your state. You really think doing that will not affect the quality of care? Sure it will get cheaper, cause millions will be paying into something that offers little to no return when it's needed. Kinda makes the mandate pointless, doncha think? This helps how? Does anyone believe that deregulation will all the sudden fix everything and give corporations a conscience to boot? Look how far they go now, with the regulations. You don't think they won't sacrifice anything for more profit? Corporate personhood is bad enough. You realise that psychopathy is much more common in high level corporate positions than in the regular work force right? Imagine how much money one could make if they just don't give a fuck. I'm all for capitalism, but I also agree with certain regulations. I also don't think capitalism or regulations are a cure all.

[Syn7]

Basically. You know, there are some things that make me so glad to be out of the south. If only president drone strike stuck to his gun about single payer. The rest of the civilized world seems to be a pretty good stress test. But then, when the average American can't seem to place the states on a map, I have little faith they know anything about the going on's outside the borders of their immediate 2-3 city blocks.

I still have trouble wrapping my head around why he would take that option out of the bill when he had both houses? I guess the question is this: Did he actually believe that an unforced compromise would be appreciated in some naive effort to actually deliver hope and change to all? Or does he himself not believe in the public option? Or was it a compromise with donors? Or what?

And now he's making more changes which could potentially be grounds to send it back to SCOTUS? WTF is going on? It's like a complete win made them so uncomfortable they started giving away the house.

[SavvySavage]

Yeah but then you end up with privates in some states who have shitty laws selling cheap shitty plans like what the ACA is trying to get rid of. At least before you had to buy within your state. You really think doing that will not affect the quality of care? Sure it will get cheaper, cause millions will be paying into something that offers little to no return when it's needed. Kinda makes the mandate pointless, doncha think? This helps how? Does anyone believe that deregulation will all the sudden fix everything and give corporations a conscience to boot? Look how far they go now, with the regulations. You don't think they won't sacrifice anything for more profit? Corporate personhood is bad enough. You realise that psychopathy is much more common in high level corporate positions than in the regular work force right? Imagine how much money one could make if they just don't give a fuck. I'm all for capitalism, but I also agree with certain regulations. I also don't think capitalism or regulations are a cure all.

The plans you deemed "****ty" were liked by the people who had them. 5 million plans were cancelled since obamacare took over and guys show many people the website signed up? A confirmed 26,000 were able to get though the website and get coverage. Hmmm, what's bigger, 5 million loses or 26,000 gains?

[SavvySavage]

You would have a point if your info wasn't already already available to those with the skills to hack a gov site and get away with it. Yeah, it can happen. But it can also happen at your bank, the DMV, whatever. And it does happen. It is what it is. We are in a transitional phase as we head down the digital road and it will be a few generations before we really land on our feet in this. We are on unprecedented technological frontiers as far as the speed of advancement is concerned. Like Obamacare, except on a WAY bigger scale, this transition will not and is not starting off smoothly. Nature of the beast. You can't stop it. If people don't like it, they can go live a subsistence lifestyle and see how that goes. The genie is outta the bottle on this one.


What you guys really need is medicare for everyone. Period. It's doable, many nations have been doing it for awhile now and the quality of care is good and access remains pretty good too. Don't believe all the tards who say it's not working. I live it, and it's better than what I went through living in Cali. By far.

Banks provide their own online security and set up websites that work. Healthcare.gov is going to have hundreds of millions of people's info on it. It is like a gold mine of information except it's the only gold mine. The site isn't safe from hackers at all and we're all supposed to put our private information on it? You've got to be kidding.

[Syn7]

The plans you deemed "****ty" were liked by the people who had them. 5 million plans were cancelled since obamacare took over and guys show many people the website signed up? A confirmed 26,000 were able to get though the website and get coverage. Hmmm, what's bigger, 5 million loses or 26,000 gains?

Yeah, stupid people and super poor people who had no choice who will now be more adequately subsidized and on better plans. So you believe people should be able to be free to choose to not buy proper insurance that will ultimately cost the taxpayer money if there is a health issue then, yes? There is a balance between collective rights and individual rights, swing too far one way and you get a ton of crap in return.

Those numbers are ridiculous. If you don't understand how to put context on statistics, don't use them.

Just because 5 million people are subject to this, it does not mean all 5 million are super angry about it. The only evidence being tendered is anecdotal. Which basically means nothing. And it's more than 26,000, but putting that aside, it's just starting up in like the last week really. So you wanna put a super early running total against POSSIBLE dissatisfaction amongst a small percentage of the population? Man, you've never worked in anything that requires facts and peer review, have you? lol.

Banks provide their own online security and set up websites that work. Healthcare.gov is going to have hundreds of millions of people's info on it. It is like a gold mine of information except it's the only gold mine. The site isn't safe from hackers at all and we're all supposed to put our private information on it? You've got to be kidding.

Stop repeating talking points and take a look at what info is actually requested. And you really think banks don't get hacked on the regular all over the world? Come on now. The firms they hire to provide security are getting trolled like crazy all day every day. Like I said before, this is a transitional phase, and it's gonna be messy. With the ACA and with humanity's move into the digital world in general. Most people never even logged onto the net till the late 90's. Kids may think it's the norm, but those of us old enough to have used a rotary telephone should know better. This is all very new to the human experience. Are you aware of the problems that were caused by the wire, the telephone and other devices used for long distance communication? You should look into it, it's a fascinating history. Or you can just rail out right wing talking points, I guess.

[wenshu]

So these ideas are not new.

http://www.heritage.org/research/rep...rance-exchange

There are many private sector, free market solutions available.

Kinda like purchasing insurance from a private insurance company through a marketplace. . .

[wenshu]

Thank you for posting this. In an interview given about a month ago, Paul Ryan talked about this regarding a bill he drafted, that got passed in the House, and is sitting on Harry Reid's desk along with many other bills, awaiting to be brought to the floor for a Senate vote.

I am impressed by the conviction of your ignorance.

[SoCo KungFu]

Banks provide their own online security and set up websites that work.

Baha bahahahahahahahahaha

Oh man that's gold. Beer nearly shot out my nose. I hope you don't use bank of america.

[SavvySavage]

Yeah, stupid people and super poor people who had no choice who will now be more adequately subsidized and on better plans. So you believe people should be able to be free to choose to not buy proper insurance that will ultimately cost the taxpayer money if there is a health issue then, yes? There is a balance between collective rights and individual rights, swing too far one way and you get a ton of crap in return.

Those numbers are ridiculous. If you don't understand how to put context on statistics, don't use them.

Just because 5 million people are subject to this, it does not mean all 5 million are super angry about it. The only evidence being tendered is anecdotal. Which basically means nothing. And it's more than 26,000, but putting that aside, it's just starting up in like the last week really. So you wanna put a super early running total against POSSIBLE dissatisfaction amongst a small percentage of the population? Man, you've never worked in anything that requires facts and peer review, have you? lol.



Stop repeating talking points and take a look at what info is actually requested. And you really think banks don't get hacked on the regular all over the world? Come on now. The firms they hire to provide security are getting trolled like crazy all day every day. Like I said before, this is a transitional phase, and it's gonna be messy. With the ACA and with humanity's move into the digital world in general. Most people never even logged onto the net till the late 90's. Kids may think it's the norm, but those of us old enough to have used a rotary telephone should know better. This is all very new to the human experience. Are you aware of the problems that were caused by the wire, the telephone and other devices used for long distance communication? You should look into it, it's a fascinating history. Or you can just rail out right wing talking points, I guess.

Your argument is that you know 100% that most of those 5 million people aren't angry? Really? Lol.

Honestly, we'll never know how many have actually signed up for Obama are because they keep puffing up the numbers.

You know how many banks there are? You know how many obamacare websites there are. ONE! And tub isn't safe from hackers. They know exactly where to go to get your information.

[Syn7]

Your argument is that you know 100% that most of those 5 million people aren't angry? Really? Lol.

Honestly, we'll never know how many have actually signed up for Obama are because they keep puffing up the numbers.

You know how many banks there are? You know how many obamacare websites there are. ONE! And tub isn't safe from hackers. They know exactly where to go to get your information.

Way to just gloss over my rebuttal. But ok.

Is that really what you get from my statement? That most of the 5 million won't be angry? I never said either way. All I did was caution against using useless stats and state that we don't know because we haven't asked all 5 million. Pardon my engineering brain, but we tend to shy away from unsubstantiated bullshit when making definitive statements.

My argument, in relation to your statistics, is that YOU don't know how many of the 5 million are angry and you don't know how many people will like or dislike the ACA in 5 years, 10 years, whatever. So saying 5 million vs 20 thousand is a bullshit statistic. Laughable if it wasn't so sad. My argument is that you shouldn't make these assumptions. My argument is based of long term data sets provided by pretty much every other western nation. My argument is based on reality, not ideology.

What's really scary is that I, a Canadian, seem to have a better handle on what the ACA really is. Whereas you, somebody who is actually affected, don't seem to really know much beyond the constantly repeated talking points.

Have you looked up what info is required to be given on the site yet? Or are you happy to just talk out of your ass for now?

If you really want to make this a real debate worthy of the topic, how bout we handle all these issues one at a time. Let's start with what info is required when signing up. I know the answer. Lemme know when you do. Once you do that, compile a list of where else such information is available. We can go from there. One by one, bit by bit. Jumping all over the place really doesn't serve any useful purpose. All it does is allow people to spout ideology w/o having to show and prove. Which basically makes the whole endeavour pointless and a complete waste of time.

[SavvySavage]

Way to just gloss over my rebuttal. But ok.

Is that really what you get from my statement? That most of the 5 million won't be angry? I never said either way. All I did was caution against using useless stats and state that we don't know because we haven't asked all 5 million. Pardon my engineering brain, but we tend to shy away from unsubstantiated bullshit when making definitive statements.

My argument, in relation to your statistics, is that YOU don't know how many of the 5 million are angry and you don't know how many people will like or dislike the ACA in 5 years, 10 years, whatever. So saying 5 million vs 20 thousand is a bullshit statistic. Laughable if it wasn't so sad. My argument is that you shouldn't make these assumptions. My argument is based of long term data sets provided by pretty much every other western nation. My argument is based on reality, not ideology.

What's really scary is that I, a Canadian, seem to have a better handle on what the ACA really is. Whereas you, somebody who is actually affected, don't seem to really know much beyond the constantly repeated talking points.

Have you looked up what info is required to be given on the site yet? Or are you happy to just talk out of your ass for now?

If you really want to make this a real debate worthy of the topic, how bout we handle all these issues one at a time. Let's start with what info is required when signing up. I know the answer. Lemme know when you do. Once you do that, compile a list of where else such information is available. We can go from there. One by one, bit by bit. Jumping all over the place really doesn't serve any useful purpose. All it does is allow people to spout ideology w/o having to show and prove. Which basically makes the whole endeavour pointless and a complete waste of time.

I like how you threw in the fact you're an engineer it try to make your opinion valid. My two friends are engineers but that doesn't make their opinions on healthcare more or less valid. Keep your Resume to yourself unless you somehow feel your words are inadequate without it. A woman on American Idol stalked about how she was friends with Mariah Carey and how her singing coach told her she sounds just like her. This was all right before Simon told her she couldn't sing. You can't sing either.



If you're in Canada why do you even care? Everyone's rates have to go up in order to subsidize the people who aren't covered. I'm not currently insured but I'm not worried because paying the $99 penalty is cheaper than buying insurance I don't currently need.

Not all Canadians share your opinion but I suspect you will trash this too.
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/59612

[wenshu]

I do not know what this means. Please explain it to me. Thank you.

You display such ignorance with such conviction.

[SoCo KungFu]

What's more important: food or healthcare?

False dichotomy. Try harder.

There are so many people that don't have access to quality food on a daily basis. Since we all need quality food why didn't they pass an "Everybody gets quality free food bill"?

Plenty of programs for this already, retarded statement

We would have less obesity, less hypertension, and on and on. If I'm starving I don't need healthcare.

Progressives tried regulating food choice, fat ass republicans threw a tantrum (are you even really trying at this?)

The point is that there are lots of pressing problems but Obama used his political power on this. Good thing he signed an executive order to close Gitmo. I'll bring the family to see it as a tourist attraction...oh wait it's still open.

You're right, and we who voted for him have decided that this is one we one him to work on. Don't like it? Stop putting idiots through the primaries that can't stay away from legislating vaginas and just maybe you might get your priorities attended to.

As for gitmo, you want them living next to you? Because that's the problem. They won't be taken back by their native countries. And we've turned them into animals through lock up. Do you want them living in your neighborhood? This has been the issue all along, so tell me, are you willing to ball up and accept that? If not, shut yer bitching about gitmo.

[SoCo KungFu]

The plans you deemed "****ty" were liked by the people who had them. 5 million plans were cancelled since obamacare took over and guys show many people the website signed up? A confirmed 26,000 were able to get though the website and get coverage. Hmmm, what's bigger, 5 million loses or 26,000 gains?

They were ****ty, because they were inadequate for their purpose. That purpose is not only to cover that individual, but to support a system where slackasses without insurance (such as yourself, admittedly) don't screw over the rest of us that do. And you should probably avoid getting your stats from CBS, just sayin'