The difference between the striking art and the throwing art

[YouKnowWho]

In

- striking art, you want to use your "Fajin - power generation" to knock your opponent's head off.
- throwing art, you want to use your "Fajin - power generation" to force your opponent to respond, you then borrow his force and throw him down effortless.

For some striker, he may think that to use his "Fajin - power generation" to throw his opponent is proper. To me, that's 100% against the "borrow your opponent's force so you can have an effortless throw" principle. In other words, some striker may use his "Fajin - power generation" on the wrong place when he tries to throw his opponent.

What's your opinion on this?

[Kellen Bassette]

Not all throws are effortless.

[Syn7]

In

- striking art, you want to use your "Fajin - power generation" to knock your opponent's head off.
- throwing art, you want to use your "Fajin - power generation" to force your opponent to respond, you then borrow his force and take him down effortless.

For some striker, he may think that to use his "Fajin - power generation" to throw his opponent is proper. To me, that's 100% against the "borrow your opponent's force so you can have an effortless throw" principle.

What's your opinion on this?

I think that, in grappling, using leverage and strength to throw is just as acceptable as borrowing. It depends on the variables. I also think they are both valid in striking. I would never limit myself by pigeon holing myself like that. If you can make it work, and it does work, you have been successful. Don't tell me the best freestyle wrestler can't take down the best SC guy and vice versa. As long as the rule set doesn't favor one over the other, that is.

[YouKnowWho]

Not all throws are effortless.

The "Gong Li throw" that you use only your force and not borrowing any of your opponent's force is not effortless.

[YouKnowWho]

I think that, in grappling, using leverage and strength to throw is just as acceptable as borrowing. It depends on the variables. I also think they are both valid in striking. I would never limit myself by pigeon holing myself like that. If you can make it work, and it does work, you have been successful. Don't tell me the best freestyle wrestler can't take down the best SC guy and vice versa. As long as the rule set doesn't favor one over the other, that is.

You can use your body momentum to knock your opponent off balance and then take him down. To me that final throw is still "effortless". Of course if you combine both into one, it will be hard to say it's "effortless".

[YouKnowWho]

Here is a good example. This guy may use too much unnecessary force to unbalance his opponent. Do you think he may use his power in the wrong place?

[Kellen Bassette]

Does it matter if they are effortless or not? Sure it's cooler to use their force against them, but whether you borrowed their momentum, or just crashed in and threw them, as long as they end up on the ground right? Nothing wrong with using strength...

[YouKnowWho]

Does it matter if they are effortless or not? Sure it's cooler to use their force against them, but whether you borrowed their momentum, or just crashed in and threw them, as long as they end up on the ground right? Nothing wrong with using strength...

As long as the end result is the same, it doesn't matter. The only question is what's the most efficiency way to spend your power, before the throw or at the throw?

[wiz cool c]

beijing style shuai jiao is anything but effortless, does this look effortless to you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTTLKdMfLaA

[Syn7]

Sure, the less energy you use, the more energy you still have. That is a given. That being said, sometimes suplexing your opponent through the floor can be the right thing to do. Sometimes it's the wrong thing if you gas out and get beat up. Sometimes only borrowing will get you hurt, sometimes it will give you a much needed advantage when you get into the deep end. It's not an "either or" scenario for me. I use both and when I use them is dictated entirely by the situation. My understanding of the mechanics, my understanding of how to exploit my opponent, my understanding of what my own energy levels are, how I'm doing so far and what is the best course of action.... and so on. Not to mention all the things that require both to be successful.

[YouKnowWho]

beijing style shuai jiao is anything but effortless, does this look effortless to you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTTLKdMfLaA

If your opponent is a good wrestler, it's not that easy to be able to borrow his force. This is why sometime a wrestling round can last over an hour.

If you want to twist your opponent "clockwise" and take him down, you first twist him "counter clockwise" as hard as you can. When he resists, you then change your twisting direction, your final "clockwise" twisting can be effortless.

Since this kind of "apply your force into the opposite direction first" may not apply to the striking art. It make both arts with complete different approaches.

[-N-]

In

- striking art, you want to use your "Fajin - power generation" to knock your opponent's head off.
- throwing art, you want to use your "Fajin - power generation" to force your opponent to respond, you then borrow his force and throw him down effortless.

How many people are only strikers or only throwers?

For some striker, he may think that to use his "Fajin - power generation" to throw his opponent is proper. To me, that's 100% against the "borrow your opponent's force so you can have an effortless throw" principle. In other words, some striker may use his "Fajin - power generation" on the wrong place when he tries to throw his opponent.

You present a dichotomy that does not have to exist, even if you look at striking separate from throwing.

If a someone jabs so he can slip the counter-jab and give a body shot, uppercut, and hook, he is borrowing the opponent's force.

If someone lowers their guard to draw an attack, then beats the other guy to the punch, he is borrowing the opponent's force.

If someone makes the other guy chase, then delivers a stop kick or stop punch, he is borrowing the opponent's force.

[lkfmdc]

Your throw should be based upon proper mechanics, proper angles, proper leverage and set up,,,,, but that doesn't mean you won't use speed and power in doing it.... doing BOTH makes you good

[-N-]

The "Gong Li throw" that you use only your force and not borrowing any of your opponent's force is not effortless.

This throw can borrow force if you draw the left punch from the other person.

Your left hand catches the punch, you steal step, and continue from there.

You use his punching force to help the throw.

You can combine striking and throwing. You don't have to be either/or.

[-N-]

As long as the end result is the same, it doesn't matter. The only question is what's the most efficiency way to spend your power[...]

Agreed on this.