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Thread: Sparring without instructor

  1. #1
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    Sparring without instructor

    If your TCMA teacher doesn't teach sparring, you will need to form your own sparring group and accumulate sparring experience yourself. Many people may say that sparring without instructor may develop bad habit such as

    - close your eyes when punch,
    - always move in a straight line,
    - afriend to try new moves,
    - ...

    but IMO, the worse habit is not spar at all.

    What's your opinion on this?
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  2. #2
    Sparring without an instructor is much better than not sparring at all. If you do this, you will have bad habits, but if your half-way willing to listen to one of your sparring partners, who is observing you spar someone else, then you should be able to correct a lot of mistakes on your own. You don't need to be a Shifu to tell someone to stop flinching, don't turn your back, keep your hands up, don't back peddle, ect...

    This kind of advice can be given by anyone with a basic MA background, who is observing things you may not notice yourself doing in the heat of sparring.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    If your TCMA teacher doesn't teach sparring, you will need to form your own sparring group and accumulate sparring experience yourself. Many people may say that sparring without instructor may develop bad habit such as

    - close your eyes when punch,
    - always move in a straight line,
    - afriend to try new moves,
    - ...

    but IMO, the worse habit is not spar at all.

    What's your opinion on this?
    If at least one person in the group is more seasoned than the rest this could help prevent the development of too many bad habits. That effectively makes them an instructor but presumably this individual would work in the same as everyone else.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by SKM View Post
    I knew a MMA practitioner years ago that was doing unsupervised training with a bunch of other aspiring fighters. They did not have a teacher or a coach. When he was sparring, his opponent struck him with an elbow strike to the temple three times. He could not see or think clearly for six months and his neurologist was not sure if he would ever have normal brain function again. Fortunately, he regained his faculties and was doing well the last time I heard from him. It was quite a scare.

    Two students of a teacher I knew were at the school, unsupervised, and sparring. One student hit the other in the heart and he immediately felt faint. They stopped sparring and the student who was struck was taken home by his mother. As he sat on his bed, he said he felt funny and fell over dead from cardiac tamponade.
    As to the first story, not training with morons would solve that problem. For the second, I'm not sure having a trainer would have made a difference. Sounds like a freak occurrence.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    As to the first story, not training with morons would solve that problem.
    You would think not training with fucking psychopaths would go without saying.

  6. #6
    A referee or a supervisor is always needed.

    Both sparring parties are advised about safety and mutually agreed rules before spar.

    A third party to ref or supervise so that both sparring persons will stick with saftey and rules.

    No strike, elbow or knee to unpadded areas etc.

    Our sparring partner is our teacher. We want to learn without seriously hurting one another.

  7. #7
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    sparring is the best teacher. you can become the number one fighter in the world just by sparring.

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  8. #8
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    easier said than done

    Quote Originally Posted by wenshu View Post
    You would think not training with fucking psychopaths would go without saying.
    This is the martial world. It's lousy with f-ing psychopaths.

    You definitely need some kind of monitor when sparring, whether it be a coach, an instructor, or more training buddies. Some one has to break it up when things get nasty.
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  9. #9
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    Mixing it up

    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    If your TCMA teacher doesn't teach sparring, you will need to form your own sparring group and accumulate sparring experience yourself. Many people may say that sparring without instructor may develop bad habit such as

    - close your eyes when punch,
    - always move in a straight line,
    - afriend to try new moves,
    - ...

    but IMO, the worse habit is not spar at all.

    What's your opinion on this?
    When I was a kid ( young ) we all use to slap fight with our friends and wrestle a lot. It paid off , that was long ago. With all the video and internet stuff around today practicing marital arts without a teacher especially sparring is unwise in my opinion. If one must , I would recommend protective equipment.

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    sparring is the best teacher. you can become the number one fighter in the world just by sparring.
    Well that's not true. If it was, professional fighters would just spar. But they don't just spar, do they?

  11. #11
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    Anyone remember the old karate fighter Joe Lewis (not the boxer of ****nymic name)? He said that he won the world championship by training solely on his own. I recognise that someone would be unlikely to achieve that feat against today's standard... but is interesting as a historical curiosity nevertheless.

  12. #12
    Three golden rules

    1 rules: 10 to 30 second contact and break or --That is if you can not hit the other in close range in 10 second, disengage. You cannot throw the other in 30 second contact, disengage etc.

    2 safety: no elbow, no knee, no groin, no temple strike etc

    3 end points. thrown down 3 times (shuai jiao). reach face 3 times, reach chest 3 times (point sparring) etc

    Communicate well beforehand

    then spar away.


  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by SPJ View Post
    Three golden rules

    1 rules: 10 to 30 second contact and break or --That is if you can not hit the other in close range in 10 second, disengage. You cannot throw the other in 30 second contact, disengage etc.

    2 safety: no elbow, no knee, no groin, no temple strike etc

    3 end points. thrown down 3 times (shuai jiao). reach face 3 times, reach chest 3 times (point sparring) etc

    Communicate well beforehand

    then spar away.

    10 to 30 seconds isn't much time, you want to work so you can push your cardio a bit, I think anywhere from 90 seconds to 5 minutes, depending on the conditioning level.

    I don't see any problem with the knee, as long as you don't go to the face...If your doing an art that incorporates knees you need to learn how to use them live.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPJ View Post
    Three golden rules

    1 rules: 10 to 30 second contact and break or --That is if you can not hit the other in close range in 10 second, disengage. You cannot throw the other in 30 second contact, disengage etc.

    2 safety: no elbow, no knee, no groin, no temple strike etc

    3 end points. thrown down 3 times (shuai jiao). reach face 3 times, reach chest 3 times (point sparring) etc

    Communicate well beforehand

    then spar away.

    I disagree with all these three golden rules.

    1. Engagement and disengagement should be naturalistic. Each fight has its rhythm and you should learn to feel it. Also you should push your endurance in sparring practice.

    2. This is all well and good if it is what the parties sparring agree on. Some may prefer to include some or all of these in the allowed strikes - particularly elbows and knees which are bread and butter for close-fighting.

    3. End point again should be arrived at through two factors - the limits of endurance and the mutual agreement of participants. I disagree with this less than points one and two.

    I agree entirely with "communicate well beforehand" that is a MUST.
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  15. #15
    Some of my best memories are of throwing down at the park. No instructor, just wraps, gloves, mouthpiece, cup and a whole lot of bloody noses. Peer review was always an important factor. Everyone had diff backgrounds and everyone pitched in. I enjoyed sparring at the gym, but it was never as fun as those summer days outside.

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