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Thread: Sparring Without Injury

  1. #1
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    Sparring Without Injury

    Kind of an aside to the "Sparring without Instructor" thread.


    I find that when I spar with medium or heavier contact, I frequently get injured. Right now I'm nearly recovered from a frustrating month with a badly bruised rib.
    Light sparring is fun and fine, and what I usually do, but lacks the feel of "reality."

    For those of you who spar hard on a regular basis, what do you do to avoid injuries?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by ShaolinDan View Post
    Kind of an aside to the "Sparring without Instructor" thread.


    I find that when I spar with medium or heavier contact, I frequently get injured. Right now I'm nearly recovered from a frustrating month with a badly bruised rib.
    Light sparring is fun and fine, and what I usually do, but lacks the feel of "reality."

    For those of you who spar hard on a regular basis, what do you do to avoid injuries?
    I guess you got to assess what your most common injuries are and work on ways to avoid them. My most common problems are bone bruises to my shins and pulled muscles during clinching/throwing.

    The past couple years I have focused more on my shin conditioning, which has really helped, along with being better about wearing decent shin pads...another problem with that is I often spar much larger men, with much bigger legs. I have to be a lot more careful picking my shots with them, to not have my kicks checked or hit shin to shin.

    The pulled muscles usually aren't a problem if I do a solid 10 minutes of stretching, instead of just a few quick half-hearted stretches before jumping in the ring. I know that's on me when it happens.

    For worse injuries, (like your ribs,) you really got to let that heal. Seems like every time I spar hard with an injury it gets hit again...then it takes way to long to heal. I did that last year with my hip blade, I got kneed and it bruised pretty good, the next week I was sparring a bigger guy and took a real solid punch in the exact same spot, (weird situation.) It took a solid month before I could spar; and I was gun shy about that hip for quite a while after...
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

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    I used to use Kendo equipment to train full contact. The only problem is since it doesn't hurt, you may get lazy to block any body punch.

    http://imageshack.us/a/img545/4410/gd98.png

    I also use my bullet-proof vest (my birthday gift) for full contact on the body too.
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 01-05-2014 at 05:06 PM.
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    I also use my bullet-proof vest (my birthday gift)
    Your worried about one of those "internal only" guys doing you in, aren't you...
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

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    If you spar with any reasonable amount of force on a consistent basis, you're going to get injuries. If you continue to spar without properly resting and healing these injuries, like most of us, these injuries will become exacerbated. Exacerbated injuries will exponentionally increase the frequency and duration of which you are unable to spar. Eventually, these injuries will be beyond repair and you will no longer be able to spar. Thus, proper sparring leads to not sparring.
    He most honors my style who learns under it to destroy the teacher. -- Walt Whitman

    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    As a mod, I don't have to explain myself to you.

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    When sparring a younger practitioner for the sake of training, always spar the student at their own level of ability or just slightly more, so as to evoke learning and progress from them. Never beat on younger students and do not allow advanced students to beat on them either.When fighting someone with less training, fight just slightly above their level so as to fine tune and control the level of engagement, at the same time assisting the other person in upgrading their art.
    I whole heartedly agree with this statement. In fact, I agree with everything you said SKM. In our system we say fight to your opponents ability. And, if it's a real fight, then fight until there's no fight left in your opponent. This does not mean kill, it just means you are obligated to stop beating them up when they stop attacking you.

    ShaolinDan, If you have sparring partners who do not live by this, but instead are there to feed their own egos then I'd suggest moving on. If a student is regularly showing their psycho nature and hurting people on purpose then the instructor or his best student…whoever wears the black hat…should run them out of the school. Violently if needed.

    Miyamoto Musashi said in the Book of Five Rings that an injury sustained in martial training should be considered as equal to an injury sustained in battle. I believe he was making the point that martial training is combat training which is serious war training. People should respect this concept because what they are learning can do serious damage to people so it should not be taken lightly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    Your worried about one of those "internal only" guys doing you in, aren't you...
    You won't believe what kind of birthday gift that I have received every year. Besides bullet-proof vest, I also received stun gun, pepper spray, Star War sword, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon sword, Walther PPK, ...

    http://images.search.yahoo.com/image...nsw&hspart=avg
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 01-05-2014 at 07:22 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterKiller View Post
    Thus, proper sparring leads to not sparring.
    That's what concerns me.
    I've read about your (and other's) long-term injuries on here, and taken it to heart. The challenge seems to be finding the balance between training hard enough and often enough to fight well, verses preventing chronic injuries that inhibit one's ability to fight. For my goals I'd prefer to err on the side of too little hard contact...but I'd like to have as much as I can without crossing that line. Tricky problem with a lot of luck and random chance mixed in. Appreciate reading everyone's thoughts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenBrain View Post

    ShaolinDan, If you have sparring partners who do not live by this, but instead are there to feed their own egos then I'd suggest moving on. If a student is regularly showing their psycho nature and hurting people on purpose then the instructor or his best student…whoever wears the black hat…should run them out of the school. Violently if needed.
    Well, the last couple injuries were not from guys in my school. One (a badly jammed finger...nothing debilitating, but still annoying) was a kung fu teacher from another school who stopped by for a friendly exchange...he was much more experienced and much better than me. I have no idea how/when I hurt my finger, I was too busy getting punched in the face to notice when it happened.
    The latest (the ribs) was at this very cool open sparring exchange that's been organized in my area. Guy who got me (roundhouse kick to the ribs) was an MMA type. Probably ten years younger and thirty pounds heavier than me...
    The sparring exchange is a little dangerous, we're all taking a chance sparring with people we don't really know...but how can I pass up an opportunity to spar with a dozen different people from a half dozen styles in one afternoon? The simple solution would be to avoid the young men as they have too much to prove...but if I can't hang with them, then what's the point?
    Anyway, there was nothing psycho about either of these guys. They were just larger and more aggressive than I am. I have a light frame with small bones, which is problematic for hand to hand combat (probably good for sword fighting though ).

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenBrain View Post
    Miyamoto Musashi said in the Book of Five Rings that an injury sustained in martial training should be considered as equal to an injury sustained in battle. I believe he was making the point that martial training is combat training which is serious war training. People should respect this concept because what they are learning can do serious damage to people so it should not be taken lightly.
    Good point.

    Another thing we need to consider is that, until fairly recent history and modern medicine, many injuries we think of as non-life-threatening, or fairly minor, could easily have resulted in disability or death, from infection, etc., far more easily than today. In Musashi's time, MA training was not taken up as a pastime. But hard combative training was and still always carries a risk, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    You won't believe what kind of birthday gift that I have received every year. Besides bullet-proof vest, I also received stun gun, pepper spray, Star War sword, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon sword, Walther PPK, ...
    Can't she just get you a nice package of noodles?


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    Quote Originally Posted by ShaolinDan View Post
    Well, the last couple injuries were not from guys in my school. One (a badly jammed finger...nothing debilitating, but still annoying) was a kung fu teacher from another school who stopped by for a friendly exchange...he was much more experienced and much better than me. I have no idea how/when I hurt my finger, I was too busy getting punched in the face to notice when it happened.
    The latest (the ribs) was at this very cool open sparring exchange that's been organized in my area. Guy who got me (roundhouse kick to the ribs) was an MMA type. Probably ten years younger and thirty pounds heavier than me...
    The sparring exchange is a little dangerous, we're all taking a chance sparring with people we don't really know...but how can I pass up an opportunity to spar with a dozen different people from a half dozen styles in one afternoon? The simple solution would be to avoid the young men as they have too much to prove...but if I can't hang with them, then what's the point?
    Anyway, there was nothing psycho about either of these guys. They were just larger and more aggressive than I am. I have a light frame with small bones, which is problematic for hand to hand combat (probably good for sword fighting though ).

    Ahh, good times! I see what you're saying and it doesn't seem like you're in a place full of egoists. It's hard not to be more competitive in the type of sparring exchanges you described above so there's bound to be injuries. I would definitely view those injuries as accidents. So, with that said, all you can do is work on that iron shirt my friend!

    I jammed three of my fingers so bad one time by down blocking a kick with my fingers pointed down (dumb). They were bruised from the knuckles to the fingertips. OUCH!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Good point.

    Another thing we need to consider is that, until fairly recent history and modern medicine, many injuries we think of as non-life-threatening, or fairly minor, could easily have resulted in disability or death, from infection, etc., far more easily than today. In Musashi's time, MA training was not taken up as a pastime. But hard combative training was and still always carries a risk, though.
    Someone I know just had a friend die from a broken ankle. Apparently they didn't give her any blood thinners to prevent clots. Scary stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenBrain View Post
    Ahh, good times! I see what you're saying and it doesn't seem like you're in a place full of egoists. It's hard not to be more competitive in the type of sparring exchanges you described above so there's bound to be injuries. I would definitely view those injuries as accidents. So, with that said, all you can do is work on that iron shirt my friend!

    I jammed three of my fingers so bad one time by down blocking a kick with my fingers pointed down (dumb). They were bruised from the knuckles to the fingertips. OUCH!

    More iron body (and hands and shins) conditioning (I've been pretty lax lately) was one of my thoughts. I'm sure it would help, but with such a light frame, I'm not sure how far it will take me. I guess there's only one way to find out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShaolinDan View Post
    More iron body (and hands and shins) conditioning (I've been pretty lax lately) was one of my thoughts. I'm sure it would help, but with such a light frame, I'm not sure how far it will take me. I guess there's only one way to find out.
    You can do it homie! If you don't mind me asking what is your weight/height?

    I'm not trying to be c0cky here but I'm 5'10" and weigh 155-160 at my tournament weight. I walk around at about 165 - 170 lbs. I can totally work dudes twice my size and I credit my kung-fu and iron body training for that. Of course, 30 years of study/experience in something like 15 or more styles and good genetics help. I love when my pro MMA buddies say "you learned that in kung-fu?" Bwaaaahahahahahahaha!!! It's like the MMA crowd has forgotten where fighting arts originated from.

    I'm not sure what conditioning you have but if you put in the time with iron body it will definitely pay you dividends. If you are small and fast then use that to your advantage. Kinetic energy (speed) equals power! And, if you harden your body in a safe and correct way you will be able to absorb or deflect stuff that knocks the average citizen out. Again, I'm not trying to brag but rather serve as an example.

    I would also suggest this. When you fight more experienced fighters, especially talented sifu's and the pro's, then observe what favorite techniques they use. Everybody has their own flavor and favorite techniques so pay attention to what works for them. If they use them effectively against you then it's something that works against others. Take the few favorites from all the masters you work with and you can almost create a style from that alone. Once you see what works for them then incorporate that into your personal inventory of skills and you will see yourself improving exponentially. Since you are smaller and probably faster then work the center line off of 45 degree angles from the outside-in and straight blast your opponents each time you regain that center line. Train to be an inside fighter since your are small. Don't use long range techniques with guys that have longer reach. Jump inside and work their aZZ. Sweep and throw often to discourage your opponent, wear them out, and cause damage at the same time. The more they are thrown down and get up the more tired they will be and when you see them huffing wind jump in and capitalize.

    I could go on and on, but you get the idea. Best of luck and remember, preserve yourself through effective defense (which can also be offense), be patient, smile and capitalize on whatever opening you can create. Don't listen to those who say you need a mean face. Smiling is iron head! It is also disconcerting to your opponent. It might piZZ them off but that can also be to your advantage. Smiling elevates stress, helps you mind to work better and hardens the muscles around your jaw and temple.
    Last edited by GoldenBrain; 01-06-2014 at 12:07 AM.

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