Did Wong sheung Leung lost a challenge match to a Chow Gar mantis practioner

[sanjuro_ronin]

fast forward to 3.05 in this clip, not quite a ***** slap lol

Those sparring matches show some of the issues with "southern hand" systems, something the all of them tend to carry into fights and that is an over reliance on the opponent being of the same system.
That and they tend to always "lift" their chin too much.

Quote Originally Posted by kung fu fighter View Post
I agree! WCK use of elbow force power generation and snake engine are superior to SPM's engine in my opinion.

Having done both I can see that the WC method is NOT superior to the SPM method NOR is the SPM method superior to the WC method.
Two different methods of taking the same road that is all.
The WC method would NOT work within the WC framework and vice-versa.

[kung fu fighter]

Those sparring matches show some of the issues with "southern hand" systems, something the all of them tend to carry into fights and that is an over reliance on the opponent being of the same system.
That and they tend to always "lift" their chin too much.

This can be said about most traditional Martial Arts lol, it's only those crazy souls like myself who dare to venture outside their style and comfort zone come to discover this. I am big on cross training with MMA fighters, but sticking to the concepts and principles of my Traditional CMA. That's why we need a Traditional Martial Arts MMA tournament like the first few UFC's. I like the Man up stand up competition, but that ring is horrible lol, they need more funding to get a safer octigon/cage to protect the fighters.

Having done both I can see that the WC method is NOT superior to the SPM method NOR is the SPM method superior to the WC method. Two different methods of taking the same road that is all.

There are different WCK power generation methods depending on linage, so I am assuming you're judging from Moy Yat's WCK Perspective.
Have you done any Jook Lum SPM?

The WC method would NOT work within the WC framework and vice-versa.

Not sure what you mean by this??

[sanjuro_ronin]

This can be said about most traditional Martial Arts lol, it's only those crazy souls like myself who dare to venture outside their style and comfort zone come to discover this. I am big on cross training with MMA fighters, but sticking to the concepts and principles of my Traditional CMA. That's why we need a Traditional Martial Arts MMA tournament like the first few UFC's. I like the Man up stand up competition, but that ring is horrible lol, they need more funding to get a safer octigon/cage to protect the fighters.





There are different WCK power generation methods depending on linage, so I am assuming you're judging from Moy Yat's WCK Perspective.
Have you done any Jook Lum SPM?



Not sure what you mean by this??

Jook Lum from Macao was my lineage, though I have some experience in Chow Gar ( minor).
I am looking from the perspective of WCK in general VS SPM in general.

Many seem to THINK there are different methods of power generation, these people tend to confuse power generation with the expression of that power.
The human body is just that, regardless of the "engine".
That a group can give the way they do things a certain name, doesn't mean very much.
I have seen fajing ( as an example) in WC, in SPM, in Hung Kuen, in Chen and Yang Taiji, and even in western boxing, Karate and Judo.
They all tend to think they are doing something "unique", but they aren't, they are expressing it in a different way.

But if people want to believe they are doing something special and different and that is a "snake" engine or "crane" engine or "furry badger engine" then that is their view and that's fine.

[Jimbo]

Jook Lum from Macao was my lineage, though I have some experience in Chow Gar ( minor).
I am looking from the perspective of WCK in general VS SPM in general.

Many seem to THINK there are different methods of power generation, these people tend to confuse power generation with the expression of that power.
The human body is just that, regardless of the "engine".
That a group can give the way they do things a certain name, doesn't mean very much.
I have seen fajing ( as an example) in WC, in SPM, in Hung Kuen, in Chen and Yang Taiji, and even in western boxing, Karate and Judo.
They all tend to think they are doing something "unique", but they aren't, they are expressing it in a different way.

But if people want to believe they are doing something special and different and that is a "snake" engine or "crane" engine or "furry badger engine" then that is their view and that's fine.

Agreed.

I've heard some people say that 'fajing' is only characteristic of certain styles...Chen Taiji, Xingyi, and Baji are some examples that are usually mentioned. But such power generation is present among practitioners of virtually every MA. CLF, N. Mantis, Bagua, WC, Hung Ga, the various Long Fist styles, boxing; even my first striking art teacher, who taught Kenpo, could 'fajing' with the best of them. Far more important than style of system is, can you apply it in action, as opposed to simply focusing the power into empty air?

As for a famous reputable fighter having lost or not, and if so, by what style, my answer is: I would be far more suspicious of a prolific fighter who has 'never' lost a fight in his life. Then the question becomes 'who did he fight', as opposed to 'what style did he beat (or lose to)'. Because styles don't beat people. They and experience (and circumstances) are the tools used by individuals to fight with.

[YouKnowWho]

I have seen fajing ( as an example) in WC, in SPM, in Hung Kuen, in Chen and Yang Taiji, and even in western boxing, Karate and Judo.
They all tend to think they are doing something "unique", but they aren't, they are expressing it in a different way.

There are only long Jing and short Jing. There is no WC Jing, SPM Jing, Chen Taiji Jing, ...

The longfist system uses the long Jing. After you have knock a hole through your opponent's chest, your arm will keep moving until all your arm is on the other side your your opponent's body.

The Chen Taiji may use short Jing by just moving the waist a little bit, send out force, and then pull it back right way.

In the throwing art, the short Jing is used to set up. The long Jing is used to finish.

[chaotic2k]

I think that wsl and others must have had scraps with chow gar guys. I think that these fights were just kids fighting with most out comes being unclear of winner or loser. This is an educates guess... As for SPM vs WC, is a silly topic. I know a very well known UK SPM sifu beat a very wwll known UK wing Chun Sifu BUT i bet the fights outcome was determind by guts and power.

Trouble with most CMA is its all stories and talk. Cant trust WSL or Yip Shui. All ego and self delusion in my humvle opion.

I have fought Chow Gar using WSL method. Took hits and gave hits. Won fight but ended up on floor and used Ground n Pound! I was bigger and stronger... Only if i knew what i knew now!


Peace

[k gledhill]

I asked PB about this while training with him last week, he said wsl lost a few fights in the early days as he gained experience using vt, no bigee.

[kung fu fighter]

I asked PB about this while training with him last week, he said wsl lost a few fights in the early days as he gained experience using vt, no bigee.

Hey Kev,
Every fighter loses at one time or another, this does not take away from WSL's reputation, and in fact I respect that he faught against all commers. Did PB share any details in regards to these fights that WSL lost. For example against which styles as well as what he learnt fromt the experiences?

[Kellen Bassette]

Won fight but ended up on floor and used Ground n Pound!

Yes, but did your maintain you centerline and elbow position while ground and pounding him? That's what really counts!

[chaotic2k]

Yes, but did your maintain you centerline and elbow position while ground and pounding him? That's what really counts!

Haha! I didnt know what to do back then. Funny thimg is that after the encounter both parties got heaverly into grappling!