PBVT Sparring Clip

[LFJ]

Granted it is controlled and not continuous, but it's the closest thing to full sparring shown from PBVT so far, I think.

Personally, I think there could still be a lot more forward pressure used. The good thing about it though, is that it doesn't fall apart and turn into slap fighting when it comes away from the chi-sau environment, like so many others.

[Frost]

it doesnt turn into a slap fest because there is no contact.
Its really nothing more than chi sao done at a non contact range, both parties are doing wing chun attacks and not making any contact, wing chun will always work in that situation, hell any art will work if both parties agree to use it and to not hit each other......but it will turn into a slap fest as soon as they actually start hitting each other and working against non wing chun attacks

[Graham H]

it doesnt turn into a slap fest because there is no contact.
Its really nothing more than chi sao done at a non contact range, both parties are doing wing chun attacks and not making any contact, wing chun will always work in that situation, hell any art will work if both parties agree to use it and to not hit each other......but it will turn into a slap fest as soon as they actually start hitting each other and working against non wing chun attacks

Would you call this forward pressure, trying to hit each other and no slapping??

I check in from time to time Frost and all I ever see is you still slating Wing Chun but not offering anything to show how you would do it better. Nothing changes huh?

[LFJ]

it doesnt turn into a slap fest because there is no contact.

If they didn't pull the punches placed on the other's face, nothing would change in the exchange except that it would end sooner and they'd be injured.

Its really nothing more than chi sao done at a non contact range, both parties are doing wing chun attacks and not making any contact, wing chun will always work in that situation,

Well of course a VT fighter is going to fight using VT. I don't see them doing chi-sau though.

[Frost]

Would you call this forward pressure, trying to hit each other and no slapping??

I check in from time to time Frost and all I ever see is you still slating Wing Chun but not offering anything to show how you would do it better. Nothing changes huh?

honestly even with the gloves and head gear they were still pulling their punches but it was better than the first clip that's for sure

[Graham H]

honestly even with the gloves and head gear they were still pulling their punches but it was better than the first clip that's for sure

If they didn't pull their punches then how can they train? Both of those guys can hit like a muel so why end things so quick? How can anybody improve anything by somebody getting flattened after 30 secs?

Maybe you should think of that.

These guys are not competing or fighting each other through anger.

[Frost]

If they didn't pull the punches placed on the other's face, nothing would change in the exchange except that it would end sooner and they'd be injured.



Well of course a VT fighter is going to fight using VT. I don't see them doing chi-sau though.

a lot would change, as soon as the fear and possibility of real contact was there structure would fall apart, they would turn away from each other, shell up, fine motor control would go, their shots would become wider they would reach for the incoming shots to.stop them, and they would be more hesitent to more forward for fear of being hit and hurt, this is what always happens when contact is felt, and no they wouldn't drop and it wouldn't end sooner, but injury would happen unless they put on gloves and a mouth piece . Wing chun works fine again other people playing that game, as do most southern arts, its when you meet people not playing a centre line tactile game you get into trouble, so practise sparring against those people not other wing chun types, because thats who you will end up fighting in reality

[Frost]

If they didn't pull their punches then how can they train? Both of those guys can hit like a muel so why end things so quick? How can anybody improve anything by somebody getting flattened after 30 secs?

Maybe you should think of that.

These guys are not competing or fighting each other through anger.

its not about hitting like a mule and you know that, its about being under enough pressure so you can test your structure, and im not saying you should do this all the time, but if you are putting on head gear and gloves, then make the.most out of it. It doesn't look like they are hitting hard to me, but it if they are and it is testing structure and ability under pressure then that's great

[Graham H]

a lot would change, as soon as the fear and possibility of real contact was there structure would fall apart they would turn away from each other, shell up, fine motor control would go, their shots would become wider they would reach for the incoming shots to.stop them, and they would be more hesitent to more forward for fear of being hit and hurt, this is what always happens when contact is felt, and no they wouldn't drop and it wouldn't end sooner, but injury would happen unless they put on gloves and a mouth piece .

I agree with that but how can you know how they handle that from a video and why are you so convinced that their structure would fall apart? Maybe a crystal ball or something?

Wing chun works fine again other people playing that game, as do most southern arts, its when you meet people not playing a centre line tactile game you get into trouble, so practise sparring against those people not other wing chun types, because thats who you will end up fighting in reality

The center line tactile game? WTF is that? If you mean by driving up the middle and looking for arm contact then I agree but that's not how Ving Tsun works. Only in systems that have got it wrong. Going up the middle is dangerous unless the other guy has his arms down and looking for arm contact is a useless idea.

In reality? You mean street fighting?

I don't think your idea of Ving Tsun is correct Frost and that's maybe why your POV has been distorted.

[Graham H]

its not about hitting like a mule and you know that, its about being under enough pressure so you can test your structure, and im not saying you should do this all the time, but if you are putting on head gear and gloves, then make the.most out of it. It doesn't look like they are hitting hard to me, but it if they are and it is testing structure and ability under pressure then that's great

So you are saying hitting hard is not structure testing? Are you mad?

These guys have power believe me and if they hit you then I would be surprised if you had time for anything else.

[YouKnowWho]

If they didn't pull their punches then how can they train?

One training that I like is very simple. Your opponent just use left and right hay-makers that aiming at the side of your head with 50% power and full speed. You only use jab and cross and aiming your opponent's forehead or side of the face (not on the nose) also with 50% power and full speed. So you or your opponent may get hit a couple of times on the head. No big deal. It's just part of training.

It's so funny that there was a period of time that I didn't get hit on the face, my self-confidence went down because I didn't know whether I could still take a full shot on my head or not. If I constantly got hit on my head, my self-confidence was even higher.

When you think that any of your opponent's full power shot can knock you down, you will be nervous. When you have realized that it's not that easy for your opponent to knock you down, your will be much calmer and relax with self-confidence. So to get hit on the head is not all that bad as long as both you and your opponent are only using "50%" power. You can always increase that 50% to 60% or even higher after you and your opponent get used to it and have mutual trust on each other.

IMO, sparring with no contact is a bad idea.

[Graham H]

One training that I like is very simple. Your opponent just use left and right hay-makers that aiming at the side of your head with 50% power and full speed. You only use jab and cross and aiming your opponent's forehead or side of the face (not on the nose) also with 50% power and full speed. So you or your opponent may get hit a couple of times on the head. No big deal. It's just part of training.

It's so funny that there was a period of time that I didn't get hit on the face, my self-confidence went down because I didn't know whether I could still take a full shot on my head or not. If I constantly got hit on my head, my self-confidence was even higher.

When you think that any of your opponent's full power shot can knock you down, you will be nervous. When you have realized that it's not that easy for your opponent to knock you down, your will be much calmer and relax with self-confidence. So to get hit on the head is not all that bad as long as both you and your opponent are only using "50%" power. You can always increase that 50% to 60% or even higher after you and your opponent get used to it and have mutual trust on each other.

IMO, sparring with no contact is a bad idea.

I agree apart from saying sparring with no contact is a bad idea. Once a student has progressed through chi sau/gwoh sau then becoming used to sparring has many facets. If we just throw ourselves in at the deep end all the mistakes come out like being apprehensive, too much unnecessary movements, retracting the hands etc etc. Being too nervous causes many problems so the learning curve has to be gradual like everything else in the system. Light sparring with minimal contact has its place until a point when we are competent of going all out.

Also fear of getting hit and being in close can lead to many mistakes. This problem is addressed right from day one.

[YouKnowWho]

This is always the general problem for all "striking art" (not just for the WC system) and that is if you go full contact, people may get hurt, if you don't, it won't be realistic. I always prefer to start full contact on the body shot first. The head shot can be started with only 50% of the power.

[Graham H]

This is always the general problem for all "striking art" (not just for the WC system) and that is if you go full contact, people may get hurt, if you don't, it won't be realistic. I always prefer to start full contact on the body shot first. The head shot can be started with only 50% of the power.

Yes. I know Boxers use body sparring a lot.

For Ving Tsun we aim to achieve balance and suppleness in both arms. If both training partners have a good level of hand eye co-ordination and spatial awareness then you can go pretty hard at it without knocking teeth out.

Without being stood in front of somebody it's impossible to gauge what force is being used. In Ving Tsun years of hitting the wall bag, the dummy, using the long pole, knives, heavy bag and poon sau build a lot of structural force and striking power. I have not met many people that have this power in Ving Tsun but when they have it the initial shock of the action scatters the senses momentarily. Another big factor is timing. These things can't be acknowledged or felt from watching video.

[Frost]

So you are saying hitting hard is not structure testing? Are you mad?

These guys have power believe me and if they hit you then I would be surprised if you had time for anything else.

hitting hard is one test of structure but keeping that structure under the pressure and fear of being hurt is another thing all together, and that's the reallyhard part which needs working on the most,
I'm sure they have great power can they keeep generating said power when someone is tryig to take their head off that's the question