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Thread: PBVT Sparring Clip

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by T_Ray View Post
    Philipp Bayer footage typically shows him training and teaching Poon Sao, Lap Sao, Chi Sao, hand drills (ie Pak and Jut drills), kicking drills and Goh Sao, usually with numerous variations and footwork..... Plus the occasional knife, pole and dummy drill.

    Haters it seems, can only see "the same "bong lop" drill"... (Whatever that means)?

    I enjoy watching these clips... Keep 'em coming!
    Haters? The ultimate online barb you ruthless devil!

    And youre right, who are we (all the non PB wcers) to have an opinion...........

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by k gledhill View Post
    But that's boxing : ) as much as I like it , it's trading punches not intercepting.
    There's some trading, some intercepting, some evading, and some finishing. Yes it is a different style. But I'd love to see some of that kind of technical skill blended with the timing and athleticism seen there in WCK clips.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by T_Ray View Post
    Haters it seems, can only see "the same "bong lop" drill"... (Whatever that means)?
    I think it means that most of the semi-live drills look remarkably alike, regardless of the technique in the video label. To me it doesn't look full contact at all, except for once in a while someone gets blasted in the chest with a full contact shot. Most of the interaction looks like someone has mastered slap fighting. I get the feeling that unless you are being stopped consistently with hard shots, stuff like that would be easy to walk in on, jam, crowd, and take someone down as I've done it against non-critical strikes pretty consistently.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Wayfaring View Post
    I think it means that most of the semi-live drills look remarkably alike, regardless of the technique in the video label. To me it doesn't look full contact at all, except for once in a while someone gets blasted in the chest with a full contact shot. Most of the interaction looks like someone has mastered slap fighting. I get the feeling that unless you are being stopped consistently with hard shots, stuff like that would be easy to walk in on, jam, crowd, and take someone down as I've done it against non-critical strikes pretty consistently.
    Everyone has a spectators opinion until they get hit and realize the short range punch of vt isn't a " slap fight " ; )
    There is a lot of work done on the punch for this reason. It travels a shorter distance, has to deliver stopping power, ko force, etc, in a quarter of the distance most punches are thrown. Heavy bag work is done extensively, double end bag, wall bag....the kick too, heavy bag...all you " see " is the tip of the proverbial ice-berg in clips. Walking into an iceberg is more like it, you assume that all you see is not so much to " walk into " : ) then you get hit in the face and your black belt becomes a brown belt really quick, then another punch and hey presto you're a white belt ; )

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by k gledhill View Post
    Everyone has a spectators opinion until they get hit and realize the short range punch of vt isn't a " slap fight " ; )
    There is a lot of work done on the punch for this reason. It travels a shorter distance, has to deliver stopping power, ko force, etc, in a quarter of the distance most punches are thrown. Heavy bag work is done extensively, double end bag, wall bag....the kick too, heavy bag...all you " see " is the tip of the proverbial ice-berg in clips. Walking into an iceberg is more like it, you assume that all you see is not so much to " walk into " : ) then you get hit in the face and your black belt becomes a brown belt really quick, then another punch and hey presto you're a white belt ; )
    out of interest where are the clips of all the bjj blackbelts being turned into whitebelts by PBs students...
    Come to that where are all the clips of PBs students using their short range explosive power to knock people out....mmmm let me guess the cameras get turned of just as the endless drilling stops and the fighting against other styles starts

    Because lets be honest when we think of styles known for their knock.out power we automatically think of wing chun, and especially PB VT..oh wait a minute....

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by k gledhill View Post
    Everyone has a spectators opinion until they get hit and realize the short range punch of vt isn't a " slap fight " ; )
    There is a lot of work done on the punch for this reason. It travels a shorter distance, has to deliver stopping power, ko force, etc, in a quarter of the distance most punches are thrown. Heavy bag work is done extensively, double end bag, wall bag....the kick too, heavy bag...all you " see " is the tip of the proverbial ice-berg in clips. Walking into an iceberg is more like it, you assume that all you see is not so much to " walk into " : ) then you get hit in the face and your black belt becomes a brown belt really quick, then another punch and hey presto you're a white belt ; )
    Well the one punch I do see that is full force is the short range RH body strike. The strikes to the face I see in the clips really don't look like they have the capacity to turn a black belt into a brown belt, etc. or whatever mma vs. bjj quote that is you are semi paraphrasing. That is not a matter of an invisible iceberg, it is a matter of having the position, coil, and accuracy to be able to strike with power. If someone is doing, say, the karate chop to the neck I see in chi sau a lot, that strike doesn't have the power to incapacitate someone outside of maybe a lucky finger to the eyes or something (as an example). The RH punch to the body does have the power to incapacitate or stop hit or whatever.

    But hey, I'm sure there's a yellow bamboo member out there somewhere who could knock me out with his breath with things completely invisible and non-observable.

  7. #67
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    Michael KO'd me once with a strike to the face during sparring.
    The fault was mine - ego got away from me and I tried my hardest to knock his block off with everything I had.
    He ended it fast with one of those seemingly wimpy punches.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean66 View Post
    Michael KO'd me once with a strike to the face during sparring.
    The fault was mine - ego got away from me and I tried my hardest to knock his block off with everything I had.
    He ended it fast with one of those seemingly wimpy punches.
    that's nice for you and really doesn't prove anything one way or the other, we call all tell stories of training partners who have superb power, god like reflexes etc but it still doesn't alter the fact there isn't a single clip of pbvt turning a bjj blackbelt into a white belt, or any clip of said awesome power knocking anyone out...
    Not to mention the fact that all MMA or valetudo powershot knockouts look nothing like wing chun punches which does make one wonder why if the strike is so powerful and so good, no one else has stumbled across it...vitor belfort running attack is the obvious and only exception...and he only did that once and it was hardly wing chun like

  9. #69
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    I'm just sharing my experience, Frost.
    And in my experience this particular punch does have "stopping power".
    Considering that it only takes maybe 4 or 5 hundred pounds of force to knock someone out it's not surprising that this is the case.
    Of course knocking someone out is dependent upon many factors - body mass and stature of the person being hit, their physical/mental state in the moment of being punched (i.e. tired, dehydrated, unaware, off balance, etc.).

    I read somewhere that the average untrained punch can generate around 600 pounds of force (if you've read otherwise, please let me know, I realize that this is not exact).

    So it's not hard to believe that someone who has trained intensively this one type of VT punch for the past 20 years could generate enough power to KO someone.

    Anyway, I respect your opinion, Frost and just wanted to share mine.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Wayfaring View Post
    Well the one punch I do see that is full force is the short range RH body strike. The strikes to the face I see in the clips really don't look like they have the capacity to turn a black belt into a brown belt, etc. or whatever mma vs. bjj quote that is you are semi paraphrasing. That is not a matter of an invisible iceberg, it is a matter of having the position, coil, and accuracy to be able to strike with power. If someone is doing, say, the karate chop to the neck I see in chi sau a lot, that strike doesn't have the power to incapacitate someone outside of maybe a lucky finger to the eyes or something (as an example). The RH punch to the body does have the power to incapacitate or stop hit or whatever.

    But hey, I'm sure there's a yellow bamboo member out there somewhere who could knock me out with his breath with things completely invisible and non-observable.
    Your uninformed opinions of a guy you never met .....

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by k gledhill View Post
    Your uninformed opinions of a guy you never met .....
    Seems like something you do a lot Kev.

    Your black/brown/white belt quote was originally uttered by an MMA guy IIRC.

    Nothing new here.
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  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by anerlich View Post
    Seems like something you do a lot Kev.

    Your black/brown/white belt quote was originally uttered by an MMA guy IIRC.

    Nothing new here.

    Wow, so only an mma guy can hit hard : )

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by k gledhill View Post
    Wow, so only an mma guy can hit hard : )
    out of the two of you the MMA guy probably has actual proof he can hit hard and proof of doing so to a BJJ blackbelt

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean66 View Post
    I'm just sharing my experience, Frost.
    And in my experience this particular punch does have "stopping power".
    Considering that it only takes maybe 4 or 5 hundred pounds of force to knock someone out it's not surprising that this is the case.
    Of course knocking someone out is dependent upon many factors - body mass and stature of the person being hit, their physical/mental state in the moment of being punched (i.e. tired, dehydrated, unaware, off balance, etc.).

    I read somewhere that the average untrained punch can generate around 600 pounds of force (if you've read otherwise, please let me know, I realize that this is not exact).

    So it's not hard to believe that someone who has trained intensively this one type of VT punch for the past 20 years could generate enough power to KO someone.

    Anyway, I respect your opinion, Frost and just wanted to share mine.
    fair enough Sean you have always shared your opinion well and backed it up when needed, i should not have aimed that at you sorry

    And i do respect your view, my own experience is different, even though my current TCMA teachers first art was wing chun and he can hit hard with said punch, he can hit harder with other strikes for the arts he now prefers, and to be honest his power doenst come close to the pro MMA and THai guys i know

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Sean66 View Post
    Michael KO'd me once with a strike to the face during sparring.
    The fault was mine - ego got away from me and I tried my hardest to knock his block off with everything I had.
    He ended it fast with one of those seemingly wimpy punches.
    Just wanted to acknowledge this possibility. Yes you can get clipped in sparring right on the chin and be dazed with a punch that is not a full power shot. There are plenty of examples of this in fighting everywhere from the "invisible" Muhammed Ali punch, to Shane Carwin KO'ing Gabriel Gonzaga while moving backwards, to some of Anderson Silva's best finishes.

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