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Thread: PBVT Sparring Clip

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham H View Post
    I agree with that but how can you know how they handle that from a video and why are you so convinced that their structure would fall apart? Maybe a crystal ball or something?




    The center line tactile game? WTF is that? If you mean by driving up the middle and looking for arm contact then I agree but that's not how Ving Tsun works. Only in systems that have got it wrong. Going up the middle is dangerous unless the other guy has his arms down and looking for arm contact is a useless idea.

    In reality? You mean street fighting?

    I don't think your idea of Ving Tsun is correct Frost and that's maybe why your POV has been distorted.
    no crystal ball but that is what happens to everyone the first time they really spar or fight, you can see it in peoples first full contact fight, they can look great in sparring, both technical and even hard sparring, but the first tome in the ring, cage or street with an opponent really looking to hurt them the above always happens and it starts to look like bad kick boxing, to get over this you need a lot of hard contact work, and the more unnatural the art is the more you need to work under this pressure to ingrain new habits
    Last edited by Frost; 01-10-2014 at 05:25 AM.

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    no crystal ball but that is what happens to everyone the first time they really spar or fight, you can see it in peoples first full contact fight, they can look great in sparring, both technical and even hard sparring, but the first tome in the ring, cage or street with an opponent really looking to hurt them the above always happens and it starts to look like bad kick boxing, to get over this you need a lot of hard contact work, and the more unnatural the art is the more you need to work under this pressure to ingrain new habits


    I have no interest in such things and my sparring is just fine. Fortunately enough my street fights have gone in my favor. Really that's all that matters to me. Wing Chun in the cage or cross training or whatever.......................

    For your average WC practitioner to think that he can walk from a WC school into a cage fight and expect to succeed is absurd. People would need to train like hell for such things.

    There will be many competent fighters in the world that have never stepped in a ring or cage in their lives. I think the whole argument is stupid.
    "Ving Tsun is a horse not everybody can ride"

    Wong Shun Leung.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    no crystal ball but that is what happens to everyone the first time they really spar or fight
    Pretty sure you haven't met the guys in the video or know what experience they've had, so this doesn't justify your assertion that they would fall apart if it got more real. You can't say that based on just this clip. Judge what you see, not what you imagine.

    BUT, compare them to the bald clown in this video below about halfway through. He might convince some inexperienced people of his skill by forms, chi-sau and whatnot, but even light free sparring literally! turns into a slap fest already.

    This kind of thing happens in most wing chun. It's rare you see a sparring clip like the first two posted in this thread where the practitioners are maintaining structure and applying the principles of their system. It's already a head above the rest.


  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    no crystal ball but that is what happens to everyone the first time they really spar or fight, you can see it in peoples first full contact fight, they can look great in sparring, both technical and even hard sparring, but the first tome in the ring, cage or street with an opponent really looking to hurt them the above always happens and it starts to look like bad kick boxing, to get over this you need a lot of hard contact work, and the more unnatural the art is the more you need to work under this pressure to ingrain new habits
    This is my experience, and has been echoed by all the fighters I know.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Graham H View Post
    Would you call this forward pressure, trying to hit each other and no slapping??

    I check in from time to time Frost and all I ever see is you still slating Wing Chun but not offering anything to show how you would do it better. Nothing changes huh?

    Good stuff ; ) MK is fast. The knife sparring will probably get the same criticism ; )
    Last edited by k gledhill; 01-10-2014 at 07:49 AM.

  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    This is my experience, and has been echoed by all the fighters I know.
    Agreed, sadly there is a huge faction of guys who think chi sao is " combat " and have no bridge to actually using misguided hand chasing errors to function in striking, moving, random exchanges. Put them into a situation that doesn't start with two arms rolling and you get kickboxing hand bag waving.

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by k gledhill View Post
    Good stuff ; ) MK is fast. The knife sparring will probably get the same criticism ; )
    They are moving with live energy. They are properly geared up at times showing they are acclimatizing to harder striking sparring. The knife sparring is properly geared with live movements.

    You can kind of see the newer guy tense up on impact and lose vision and mobility. But that will change within a few months if they keep doing these types of sparring rounds.

    Good enough criticism for you?

  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Wayfaring View Post
    They are moving with live energy. They are properly geared up at times showing they are acclimatizing to harder striking sparring. The knife sparring is properly geared with live movements.

    You can kind of see the newer guy tense up on impact and lose vision and mobility. But that will change within a few months if they keep doing these types of sparring rounds.

    Good enough criticism for you?

    Never good enough, keep practicing Wayfaring and one day , who knows you may become a master critic.
    One day you may make the perfect mindless critique ; )
    Criticize hard my friend.

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Graham H View Post
    I have no interest in such things and my sparring is just fine. Fortunately enough my street fights have gone in my favor. Really that's all that matters to me. Wing Chun in the cage or cross training or whatever.......................

    For your average WC practitioner to think that he can walk from a WC school into a cage fight and expect to succeed is absurd. People would need to train like hell for such things.

    There will be many competent fighters in the world that have never stepped in a ring or cage in their lives. I think the whole argument is stupid.
    Sparring a MMA fighter isn't like getting into a cage with a bear or anything. Is it true in the UK that the ammy fighters do open hand strikes to the head only? I mean really ALL Frost is talking about is getting acclimatized to harder contact. That basically is just one skill set or attribute only. Like yesterday I caught a knee to the mouth pretty hard grappling. It was hard but not concussion hard or injure something hard. Because of mma sparring conditioning my reaction was "whoa - got rocked pretty good there" as opposed to "I'm dying call the wambulance, and I lost all my technique too". Or revert to slap fighting or whatever.

    Just go spar with some mma guys once in a while. It will not be that big of a deal after the first couple sessions.

  10. #25
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    MK knows what hard sparring is.
    He's done plenty of it and plenty of it against people other than his students, i.e. people that really wanted to beat him.
    And he has never "fallen apart" and started to do bad kick boxing.

    He got a few broken ribs once from an MMA guy that stopped by for a friendly exchange, but not before he busted up the guys face....

    My brother trains regularly with MMA professionals in Shanghai, where he lives.
    Just talked to him today, and he told me he sparred last night against a young MT guy with six pro fights under his belt.
    He then added that in comparison, MK is still the scariest person he has ever sparred against.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayfaring View Post
    Sparring a MMA fighter isn't like getting into a cage with a bear or anything. Is it true in the UK that the ammy fighters do open hand strikes to the head only? I mean really ALL Frost is talking about is getting acclimatized to harder contact. That basically is just one skill set or attribute only. Like yesterday I caught a knee to the mouth pretty hard grappling. It was hard but not concussion hard or injure something hard. Because of mma sparring conditioning my reaction was "whoa - got rocked pretty good there" as opposed to "I'm dying call the wambulance, and I lost all my technique too". Or revert to slap fighting or whatever.

    Just go spar with some mma guys once in a while. It will not be that big of a deal after the first couple sessions.
    in the UK AM MMA has a few different versions, never heard of the palm strikes only one though, there are no headshot comps, 8oz gloves with no headshots on the ground etc but no palm only as far as I have seen.

  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Sean66 View Post
    MK knows what hard sparring is.
    He's done plenty of it and plenty of it against people other than his students, i.e. people that really wanted to beat him.
    And he has never "fallen apart" and started to do bad kick boxing.

    He got a few broken ribs once from an MMA guy that stopped by for a friendly exchange, but not before he busted up the guys face....

    My brother trains regularly with MMA professionals in Shanghai, where he lives.
    Just talked to him today, and he told me he sparred last night against a young MT guy with six pro fights under his belt.
    He then added that in comparison, MK is still the scariest person he has ever sparred against.
    Yep, the timing, striking power, use of strategy, speed, spatial awareness all in top condition with that guy
    "Ving Tsun is a horse not everybody can ride"

    Wong Shun Leung.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham H View Post
    Yep, the timing, striking power, use of strategy, speed, spatial awareness all in top condition with that guy
    Agreed. From what I've seen of him, he's a perfect example of good VT in my opinion. He has the relentless attacking and overwhelming forward pressure thing down, made successful of course by the use of proper VT strategy.

  14. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    Agreed. From what I've seen of him, he's a perfect example of good VT in my opinion. He has the relentless attacking and overwhelming forward pressure thing down, made successful of course by the use of proper VT strategy.
    Correct
    Last edited by Graham H; 01-11-2014 at 06:16 AM.
    "Ving Tsun is a horse not everybody can ride"

    Wong Shun Leung.

  15. #30
    Another clip of MK

    http://youtu.be/mPNG19Mhg10

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