PBVT Sparring Clip

[Paddington]

Would you call this forward pressure, trying to hit each other and no slapping??
[...]

I really enjoyed that video, particularly the brief segment with the knives. Thanks.

On the video posted in the opening post; do people not find that more traditional guard / starting position a bit weak? Specifically, with that back hand resting on the other arm I've found it to be easily exploited.

[Sihing73]

Specifically, with that back hand resting on the other arm I've found it to be easily exploited.

Hello,

Not sure what lineage you trained in, I have trained in a few different lineages of Wing Chun.
In none of them was I taught to rest the back/rear hand on the other arm.
If you are referring to the Man Sau Wu Sau position there is a definite gap between the arms. The rear hand rests in line with the elbow of the front arm but does not touch or rest on it, at least not in how I was trained.

There are other arts which use a concept known as "double-hand" in which they will utilize both arms together with one being the support of the other. This is found in Silat and Kali to name a few and if trained properly they do not make it easy to exploit, IMHO.

EDIT: My apologies Paddington, I had not watched the video clip but upon viewing it I see what you are talking about. It does appear that the rear hand is kept very close to the front arm and there are spots where the rear hand actually touches the upper arm of the front arm. Not sure what that is all about, certainly not the way I was trained and I would think it would violate center-line as the rear hand would actually be off the mid line in order to touch the other arm.

[LFJ]

He explains the guard in this video:

[LFJ]

I would think it would violate center-line as the rear hand would actually be off the mid

This guard requires a particular fight strategy as a whole with tactical footwork, angling, striking methods, timing, etc. which differ in a lot of Wing Chun systems. The importance of centerline is to protect and dominate, not necessarily to be sitting on the line. It can still be taken from you. This guard facilitates that as explained in the video.

[BPWT.]

He explains the guard in this video:

It's an interesting idea, cutting down the attacking options of the opponent and giving them a way in (comparatively unguarded), so you pretty much know where they will attack and you will "always on the right side" when you intercept. (Kali uses a similar idea, only it leaves the centerline open to try and suck you in)

But I actually prefer the method of keeping Wu Sau in the center. Maybe the downside to the method Bonafe is showing is that it limits your options. The opponent will also know that you only have one option (one side) to deal with their attack.

[Paddington]

[...]

EDIT: My apologies Paddington, I had not watched the video clip but upon viewing it I see what you are talking about. [...]

No problem, I am used to being misread! FYI I trained through one of the Sifus taught by Ip Chun but currently I am training without a Sifu and attempting to practice the WSL system.

He explains the guard in this video:

Thanks for the video I am giving it a watch now.

[Frost]

It's an interesting idea, cutting down the attacking options of the opponent and giving them a way in (comparatively unguarded), so you pretty much know where they will attack and you will "always on the right side" when you intercept. (Kali uses a similar idea, only it leaves the centerline open to try and suck you in)

But I actually prefer the method of keeping Wu Sau in the center. Maybe the downside to the method Bonafe is showing is that it limits your options. The opponent will also know that you only have one option (one side) to deal with their attack.

hung gar uses a similar idea, leaving an opening to try to draw the attack and the hakka arts begger hands also uses a similar approach leaving the centre apparently unguarded to draw the attack when you want it

[kung fu fighter]

hung gar uses a similar idea, leaving an opening to try to draw the attack and the hakka arts begger hands also uses a similar approach leaving the centre apparently unguarded to draw the attack when you want it

So does SPM and Duncan Leung wing chun.

[YouKnowWho]

it leaves the centerline open to try and suck you in ...

This principle has been used in many MA styles.

- A Kenpo guy would drop his arm straight downward, leave his head open. When his opponent punches at his face, he will use "ridge hand" to strike at the side of his opponent's head.
- A wrestler would expose his elbow. When his opponent tries to control it, he then use arm guiding to drag his arm to wherever he wants to.
- A longfist guy would leave his head open. When his opponent punches at his face, he will kick back at his opponent's belly.
- ...

[JPinAZ]

This guard requires a particular fight strategy as a whole with tactical footwork, angling, striking methods, timing, etc. which differ in a lot of Wing Chun systems.

I get what he's saying and it's an interesting strategy. But, by by vacating center, this guard violates WC's basic bai jong & centerline principles, as well as moving away from WC's ideas of maximum efficiency (and also neutrality). Besides that, doesn't wing chun's 4 gate defense strategies with hands starting on center already cover what this guard is trying to solve?

The importance of centerline is to protect and dominate, not necessarily to be sitting on the line.

How can you have one without the other? Centerline theory doesn't do you much good if you ignore it
Again, WC's goals of maximum efficiency and economy of motion coupled with centerline theory typically dictate where the hands need to be.

[GlennR]

This guard requires a particular fight strategy as a whole with tactical footwork, angling, striking methods, timing, etc. which differ in a lot of Wing Chun systems. The importance of centerline is to protect and dominate, not necessarily to be sitting on the line. It can still be taken from you. This guard facilitates that as explained in the video.

Its a fair strategy ,but there's also the trade off of having to attack from one side, its reasonably common boxing strategy

[LFJ]

I get what he's saying and it's an interesting strategy. But, by by vacating center, this guard violates WC's basic bai jong & centerline principles,

Depends on how those are defined in who's WC.

as well as moving away from WC's ideas of maximum efficiency (and also neutrality). Besides that, doesn't wing chun's 4 gate defense strategies with hands starting on center already cover what this guard is trying to solve?

No? This guard reduces four gates to two. How is that moving away from maximum efficiency?

How can you have one without the other? Centerline theory doesn't do you much good if you ignore it
Again, WC's goals of maximum efficiency and economy of motion coupled with centerline theory typically dictate where the hands need to be.

It's not ignored, just apparently understood differently in different systems. As T_Ray alluded to above, it has to do with the strategy of the system as a whole.

[LFJ]

Its a fair strategy ,but there's also the trade off of having to attack from one side, its reasonably common boxing strategy

Well, we don't just square off and start launching sideways attacks. Once in range, attack lines may change rapidly based on what the opponent presents.

[GlennR]

Well, we don't just square off and start launching sideways attacks. Once in range, attack lines may change rapidly based on what the opponent presents.

Im only addressing his "one sided guard", if he starts one one side, as he states, he has to attack from one side.......... pro's v con's

[LFJ]

Im only addressing his "one sided guard", if he starts one one side, as he states, he has to attack from one side.......... pro's v con's

The use of footwork makes it a lot more dynamic in application than it is explained to be as a seemingly static posture. As an initial guard it's an efficient means of intercepting the opponent and gaining superior position for 'entry' into striking range where the rest of the system functions and angles are dictated by the opponent's response.

When I first used it I did feel a bit awkward and exposed, but that was because I was used to something else. They always say VT is an unnatural way of fighting, but it effectively performs its intended function.