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Thread: Black panthers in the USA

  1. #16
    Hi Syn7,

    That was what was passed down to me. I did not think much about it until this thread popped up. So, I just wanted to share that much. If you are not used to seeing panthers, a black "cat" would be considered a cat.

    I have been told that North Carolina is the place to be right now. It could be that land development is causing more sightings.


    mickey

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickey View Post
    I have been told that North Carolina is the place to be right now. It could be that land development is causing more sightings.

    Bingo! The are wrecking the mountain views with more homes than the resources can support. Such is the case it seems with many states. The lake next to us, Texoma, has been drained this year so badly that you can barely find a place to put a boat in the water and it's an 89,000 acre lake. There's hardly any homes on it compared to the size, but Dallas/Ft Worth needs the water for their ever expanding population so it is piped to them. If you look at a map you'll see all kinds of lakes around Dallas which are used for water but the rich folk don't want them to be drained too much so Texoma, 2 hours to the north has to pay for it. Just sad...

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syn7 View Post
    The hardest part about hunting on foot away from roads is carrying the meat outta there. Suuuuuucks!

    I hear that! I'm not a tree stand hunter so I am usually more than a mile from any camp I hunt from. I had to drag a deer something like 4 miles up and down ravines one year. Sucks is right, but it sure was tasty!

  4. #19
    A lot of people think of "black panthers" as a specific species of big cat. They are not. What is commonly called a black panther, is a leopard or jaguar in a black color phase. Just like black squirrels in the eastern U.S. are the same animal as gray squirrels, or white tigers are the same animal as Bengal tigers, just a different color phase.

    Leopards are not indigenous to North America, so any occurrence of them would have to come from released or escaped captive animals. Jaguars are native to South and Central America; and the desert southwest in the United States. As far as I know, they never ranged as far east as the Carolinas, so it seems if the eastern sightings are real, and not mistaken identity, it would probably be from formerly captive animals.

    Big cats are known to have huge ranges, however. It seems unlikely to me they would travel as far as North Carolina, from Arizona, but I suppose it is possible. Recently a road killed mountain lion was DNA tested in Massachusetts; and scientists concluded that it came from a population in South Dakota. I have my doubts though. I'm sure if I were DNA tested, the results would show I am of French descent; and yet I've never been to France. Perhaps they are correct, or possibly the cat came from the Adirondack Mountains, or southeast Ontario/southwest Quebec, where biologists and environmental authorities insist cougars are extirpated, in spite of hundreds of sightings and the occasional, scat, tracks, hair and photos. Who is to say those animals may not have returned, (or never left,) and may be of western descent originally.

    Moose returned naturally to Northern New York in the 1980's, after being extirpated in the 1860's. The "experts" first said they could not survive, in competition with the whitetail, then they said it would take centuries to reach the sustainable populations they have today. As far as I've read, they never determined whether they returned from Vermont, Quebec or Ontario. There isn't much fact from talking heads that I don't take with a grain of salt nowadays.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenBrain View Post
    If you look at a map you'll see all kinds of lakes around Dallas which are used for water but the rich folk don't want them to be drained too much so Texoma, 2 hours to the north has to pay for it. Just sad...
    There has been talk and plans of building a pipeline from the Great Lakes to Phoenix and other southwestern cities to satisfy their water shortages. Fortunately, the Great Lakes States and Ontario drew up a pact to prevent this. There is no reason our ecosystems should be damaged because of poor city planning and building in unsuitable areas over a thousand miles away.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenBrain View Post
    Anybody heard about these little kitties? Most people I have spoke to about this say nah, there's no way, but it appears that people are sighting them all over the place. I've heard a theory that a released or several released black panthers have mated with the US mountain lion which may have spawned a hybrid that is larger than either of the parents. Kind of scary for forest hiking folks like myself. The one in the photo below was spotted in Walnut Cove, NC.

    Attachment 8036
    This picture has been popping up for years, its a fraud. The picture was originally from Africa.

    There are no panthers. Period. Panther is a common name that has no descriptive value. Panthera, is a genus name that includes Tigers, Leopards, Lions and Jaguars.

    Why am I nitpicking? Because people don't know what they are referring to. Florida "panthers" are an endangered subspecies of Puma concolor. Puma concolor is what everyone calls mountain lions. They are pumas, and people should use this term and this term only because it is the only one that resembles phylogenic accuracy.

    "Black Panthers" are actually either melanistic Jaguar (New World) or melanistic Leopard (Old World). There are no leopards in new world, and no jaguar in old world. When referring to black panthers, people should use jaguar, or leopard.

    Jaguar (Panthera onca) do not range to the eastern US. Jaguarundi (another cat of genus Puma), can be black. But on average only reach about 25 lbs, and do not range to eastern US. Puma concolor, can be grayish in color, and can reach 120 ish lbs. This is most likely what people are seeing.

    The human eye isn't evolved to detect colors at rapid speeds. Your peripheral vision is dominated by rods, which only detect black and white and low resolution detail. A dark animal, moving at speed, in low light conditions, will be nearly indistinguishable. Colors will blur, and even size will appear larger than it actually is. A puma will be indistinguishable from a black bear. And no, people don't, "Know what they saw." Humans are notorious for screwing up what they think they see. And most don't have a clue what lives in their woods (like why people have called mammalogists from my old univ in SC claiming they have margays...). Margays are really cool cats by the way. They are the only feline that can supinate their hind feet, allowing them to run down trees. And they are about the cutest thing in existence, except maybe pudu.

    If there are melanistic large cats in the Eastern US, they are most certainly isolated individuals, not breeding populations. And most certainly would be releases from exotic pet trade when idiots realize they can't handle a 120lbs carnivore (this IS how breeding populations start, and why FL is so screwed up now). But that there are even these individuals present, is a huge concession. People have looked through records back to the 1600's and found no trace of these cats in the SE US; other than mis-identifications, mistaken claw and teeth marks that are actually canids, or most often recently, forgeries.

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by mickey View Post
    Hi Syn7,

    That was what was passed down to me. I did not think much about it until this thread popped up. So, I just wanted to share that much. If you are not used to seeing panthers, a black "cat" would be considered a cat.

    I have been told that North Carolina is the place to be right now. It could be that land development is causing more sightings.


    mickey
    I've seen some hairy housecats that maybe could be mistaken for a linx, from a distance, maybe. I have trouble wrapping my head around how somebody could mistake a house cat for a panther. At any age. Baby wildcats look like what they are... kittens that quickly outgrow housecats. Their dimensions are just.... different.

    I'm not knocking the story or calling bullshit, I just don't understand.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenBrain View Post
    I hear that! I'm not a tree stand hunter so I am usually more than a mile from any camp I hunt from. I had to drag a deer something like 4 miles up and down ravines one year. Sucks is right, but it sure was tasty!
    Naw, tree stands aren't my style either. If I was hungry and that was my best chance, I would go there. But I'm not and it isn't... so, yeah. Most of my time in the bush is exploration time. To wander and track is much more my style. Multitasking, ya know!

    Field dressing is an important skill. If you can quarter the game and use your packs, even better. I have a lot of respect for the hunters that get way out there on foot. To be honest, unless it was a necessity in order to survive, I have no interest in hunting on a four wheeler 20 minutes from some highway. Just not my thing.

    When I am in the right position to do so, I'm going to try to take the time and make all my meat game meat. It's just better on every level. It's more humane, it tastes better, it's better for you, it gives you a sense of satisfaction you can never get from going to safeway, it connects you to you food source in a way that is very liberating.

    I'll never understand meat eaters who think hunting is cruel. Clearly they've never seen large scale meat production. Such a weird disconnect.

  8. #23
    Greeting,

    GoldenBrain,

    I remember you saying that you have Native American ancestry. Do your oral traditions contain the memory of these "cats"?



    mickey

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Syn7 View Post
    Naw, tree stands aren't my style either. If I was hungry and that was my best chance, I would go there. But I'm not and it isn't... so, yeah. Most of my time in the bush is exploration time. To wander and track is much more my style. Multitasking, ya know!
    Definitely like the tracking better, not quite as good odds as stand hunting, but much less boring.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syn7 View Post
    When I am in the right position to do so, I'm going to try to take the time and make all my meat game meat. It's just better on every level. It's more humane, it tastes better, it's better for you, it gives you a sense of satisfaction you can never get from going to safeway, it connects you to you food source in a way that is very liberating.

    I'll never understand meat eaters who think hunting is cruel. Clearly they've never seen large scale meat production. Such a weird disconnect.
    I know, right? Someone can eat a burger and say it's cruel to kill a deer. People are are so arbitrary.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

  10. #25
    Greetings,

    This is interesting because it fits in with the time frame reference to the incident that was passed on within my family. Still, it does not prove anything beyond a doubt:

    http://www.carolinaweeklynews.com/id32.html

    More: http://www.outdoorlife.com/forums/hu...k-cats-america

    http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/pow...ougars-nc.html

    http://www.nchuntandfish.com/forums/...ther-Sightings



    mickey
    Last edited by mickey; 01-19-2014 at 12:24 PM.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syn7 View Post
    I
    I'll never understand meat eaters who think hunting is cruel. Clearly they've never seen large scale meat production. Such a weird disconnect.
    I don't understand this mentality from anyone really. Hunting is a necessary part of conservation. While I deplore the recent issue with the TX auction hunting a black rhino, in general, hunting serves an important function. Especially as we have, in our stupidity, eliminated many of the meso and apex predators in many habitats.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickey View Post
    Greeting,

    GoldenBrain,

    I remember you saying that you have Native American ancestry. Do your oral traditions contain the memory of these "cats"?



    mickey

    Mountain lion yes but no black cats. I even double checked with my dad and he's never heard any black cat stories either.

    I spoke with my buddy today and he said his brother saw one in NC, but the photo I posted was just something he got from Facebook. Sorry about spamming the forum with a bogus photo but it has served a purpose in that I've learned a lot about cats today. Thanks SoCo for bing that to our attention.

  13. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCo KungFu View Post
    I don't understand this mentality from anyone really. Hunting is a necessary part of conservation. While I deplore the recent issue with the TX auction hunting a black rhino, in general, hunting serves an important function. Especially as we have, in our stupidity, eliminated many of the meso and apex predators in many habitats.
    Yeah, that auction is kinda weird and counterintuitive. I choose to abstain in this one though.

    I can't confirm this, which is why I choose not to make judgement, but apparently the hunt is for an older male passed breeding age who is aggressive and interfering with those who are breeding, or trying to. I don't claim to know it all when it comes to conservation, but I do know some things. I know that traits like that can be a plus with a high population and a disadvantage with very low populations. So they say that this is an older male who would have been eliminated anyways, so they auctioned off the kill in order to raise money for conservation efforts. I have friends who are conservation officers and I know they don't make these decisions lightly. I can't speak for how it is in africa, but I want to believe they show the same due care and attention.

    That being said, you kinda gotta be a douche to wanna shoot a rhino, or any animal, that you don't want to eat. I hate that trophy shit. I have killed animals, but never once did I have the desire to hang it's head on my wall. To me that just seems disrespectful. Like it's more about showing off. I hunt because it's part of my culture, it's a handy skill and it's just how we do. Nothing more, nothing less. I care deeply for these animals and I am horrified when I make a bad shot.

  14. #29
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    Sorry for going OT, but IMO, the population of wild pigs has gotten way out of hand in some states, to the point of them ruining farmland and also adversely affecting native wildlife. Although they were brought here hundreds of years ago by the Spaniards, and much later others were brought over from Russia/Eurasia for hunting, they are now quite a problem. And culling them is not easy, as they can be very elusive and hide really well. Not to mention they reproduce very quickly. There certainly aren't enough large predators to control them, and they can be extremely dangerous to boot.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 01-19-2014 at 06:14 PM.

  15. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Sorry for going OT, but IMO, the population of wild pigs has gotten way out of hand in some states, to the point of them ruining farmland and also adversely affecting native wildlife. Although they were brought here hundreds of years ago by the Spaniards, and much later others were brought over from Russia/Eurasia for hunting, they are now quite a problem. And culling them is not easy, as they can be very elusive and hide really well. Not to mention they reproduce very quickly. There certainly aren't enough large predators to control them, and they can be extremely dangerous to boot.

    I've heard some pretty crazy stories about their aggression.

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