just saw this makes me wish i hadnt bothered replying, you cant even get your story straight lolOriginally Posted by MightyB
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just saw this makes me wish i hadnt bothered replying, you cant even get your story straight lol
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oh wow a world class athlete from the only real female combat art (wrestling for women is still only a few decades old, womens bjj is very weak) is doing well in MMA, and this is your reason judo is going to take over the MMA world? forget the fact rhonda herself says she isnt a typical judo person, forget the fact her coach is a catch wrestler as well as judo guy, and forget the talent pool she is going against isnt half as good as that found in womens judo....
Of course over in the real world in the mens MMA division where wrestling and BJJ are as strong and have the same depth of talent as mens judo its a different story, but hey dont let that cloud your judgement
(. Y .)
what??? I'll rehash the whole story to make it easier for you to follow
My story's been consistent from the start.
I'll break it down... Today's MMA is about thrilling audiences and making money. Judo's better than BJJ for that. And, I mentioned that BJJ is getting overspecialized but I did acknowledge that it is the superior art for submission grappling, but submission grappling isn't MMA. And, I posted clips backing my claims up. I then posted clips and BJJ forum comments backing up that BJJ is perceived as boring, even by Dana White and that even BJJ black belts are reluctant to use a lot of their BJJ in the ring.
Then a couple of posters talked about wrestling, which is valid, but I mentioned that wrestling doesn't have subs. I even included video clips highlighting some differences between an Olympic wrestler's style and an Olympic Judoka's style (differences that can be attributed to habitual training tendencies earlier in their careers, to me it's looking like the Judoka had an easier time making the adjustment to MMA by the way).
And then I mentioned that Judo is better because it has takedowns and submissions. Then a couple of posters went on about perceived weaknesses in Judo's sub arsenal, which I proved false by showing video evidence including links to techniques that completely contradicted the claim that it doesn't have certain subs.
So what you have left is peeps saying that the Gi is why Judo is somehow inferior, like it's something that a person with half a brain couldn't overcome by simply starting to train without a gi... but I find a clip of overspecialized gi work, that no longer even exists in Judo and I make a comment about that - but guess what, that's gi BJJ brah - and it's not relevant to MMA anyway.
Soooo... what you got? nuth'n - that's why you shouldn't have posted
Wenshu makes a good point with changing my statement to Judo should...
(. Y .)
go back and look at the clips I've posted. They aren't all elite MMAers and elite Judoka and they're pulling it off.
But don't worry, I'm pretty sure my hypothesis is right and you'll soon start seeing a lot more Judo in MMA. More Harai Goshi, Tai otoshi, etc.
(. Y .)
One thing you got right though - Judo's terrible at marketing. Going back to Wenshu's Judo should comment
He's right, Judo has everything going for it, but at the same time it's its own worst enemy. For example, you practice Judo and didn't know about the subs, and your coaches could care less - because, as Sanjuru pointed out - Judo's Olympic driven and stubborn. But that won't stop evolution. There are a lot of Judo Black Belts out there - and as interest grows (because of people like Rousey) people are going to look for Judo. It's more accessible than BJJ, and a heck of a lot more cost effective. So the ball's in the average Judo coaches' corner - are they going to be dogmatic or progressive?
凸 囧 凸
I don't even, I mean, how can, wat
It's hard to take anything you say seriously when you blatantly misread stuff like that. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that your reading comprehension isn't that bad by half and I'm chalking it up to laziness.
(. Y .)
I'm agreeing with you. Yes the thread could read Judo should...
Listen, I've already outlined several reasons supporting my argument and backed them up with external sources - I've looked at your guys's opposing arguments (based on present observations - where I'm future-casting) and I'm standing behind my hypothesis (appended with your statement). You will see the dynamic takedowns from Judo becoming more mainstream, and as those become the norm, Judo should become the grappling art of choice for MMA- 'cuz it has the takedowns and all the subs.
Now here's what I've added to my hypothesis based on the thread - Judo should be able to do it, but it's losing the marketing game, so the ball is in the average Judo coach's court - meaning, the IJF and the Kodokan are going to do what they always do, which is blind obstinance to change and sometimes backed with outright hostility... whereas the average Judo coach can make his club more open to MMA.
Last edited by MightyB; 02-14-2014 at 06:36 AM.
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Judo is the root so anyone seeking to better himself would (should) seek to do judo. When the Count ended up in Brazil, he taught ne-waza based on his learning and between that era until today, people only see the throwing since that is what is being propagated and not the "ground game". I will admit that the ground game per the Western mindset takes on a different view and understanding. I am also reminded that in those days, "face" was important so for those of that class, the throw, trapping, falling, etc was seen as a higher level of skill so one did not need to roll around like the common people, as it were. Scholars, intellectuals, etc used their bodyguards and protectors for that purpose.
(. Y .)
this just happened.
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Is the main issue whether bjj is more for mma than Judo? Or weather judo schools will become more common and judo will be learned by more fighters?
Or is the question about which techniques will be used more prolifically? As a wrestler, when i first saw a Vale-tudo match and a ufc match in the very early 90's, my first thought was that it was sloppy wrestling with fighting. If the point is which techniques will be most used then i would say freestyle and collegiate wrestling techniques are used constantly in Mma, though due to marketing are never branded as such. If you have bjj eyes, its all bjj. If you have wrestlers eyes its all wrestling with the inclusion of all the illegal moves in the rule book, which you have to learn so you know what they are.
For the record, in freestyle a throw flat on the back is a total immediate victory (pin). As long as you maintain total contact throughout a throw the higher, harder, and faster it is, the higher the points. Also moves like the (i dont know how to spell this, so phonetically gee-a-teen), power half, banana split, over under sit through, ankle lace are all considered subs in bjj, but wrestlers view them as a means to an end.
So if wrestling was as widely understood as bjj or judo, maybe it would begin to be considered the premiere grappling wing of american mma. But honestly, why spend energy fighting on the ground anyway,
(. Y .)
"Davis is a Cesar Gracie black belt in BJJ, and has parlayed that into a status as one of the top women's 135ers in the world. She's won 5 straight fights, including a pair of submissions in Invicta, but she's bene unable to get a finish in the UFC. Perhaps a case of jitters, she struggled to get past the undersized Rosi Sexton before dominating Liz Carmouche in November and then squeaking past Jessica Eye at UFC 170. Rousey feels very confident in her skills against any high-level BJJ practitioner, and Davis is arguably the best one she's faced to date.
Alexis Davis is quite possibly Rousey's biggest test to date, and I think we're in for a good fight."
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2014/7/5/...-rousey-primer
16 seconds
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this is a girl who struggled against roxi saxton for lords sake, they simply dont have anyone of rouseys athletic ability for her to test herself against
"Davis is a Cesar Gracie black belt in BJJ, and has parlayed that into a status as one of the top women's 135ers in the world. She's won 5 straight fights, including a pair of submissions in Invicta, but she's bene unable to get a finish in the UFC. Perhaps a case of jitters, she struggled to get past the undersized Rosi Sexton before dominating Liz Carmouche in November and then squeaking past Jessica Eye at UFC 170. Rousey feels very confident in her skills against any high-level BJJ practitioner, and Davis is arguably the best one she's faced to date.
Alexis Davis is quite possibly Rousey's biggest test to date, and I think we're in for a good fight."
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2014/7/5/...-rousey-primer
16 seconds
(. Y .)
The UFC's best bet is to pull a competitor from the women's Judo world. There has to be someone in the 135lbs range that could give Rousey a fight. The obvious American Women's Judoka who actually has transitioned to MMA is Kayla Harrison. But she's too heavy, she'd have to drop 40lbs to fight Rousey.
Replace the word "Ninja" to "Judoka" and Rousey is living the line from Revenge of the Ninja, "Only a Ninja can stop a Ninja."
(. Y .)
You do realize it's 2014.But honestly, why spend energy fighting on the ground anyway,
Wrestling is solid, BJJ is solid, Judo is solid, Sambo is solid. All have their problems and strengths. My opinion is that Judo is the most well rounded and suitable for MMA, obviously from the length of this thread other's don't share my opinion.
Last edited by MightyB; 07-07-2014 at 05:59 AM.
(. Y .)
So apparently there's a growing number of Judoka who feel the same way as I do: http://www.freestylejudo.org/
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