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Thread: A question on WSL's dummy form; what are the major differences between his students?

  1. #1

    A question on WSL's dummy form; what are the major differences between his students?

    After watching both David Peterson's, Gary Lam's and also WSL's dummy forms on video formats I note, as many have done already, that Lam has additional kicking sections. My question is do WSL's other students, such as Philipp Bayer and Barry Lee, teach a dummy form that is more like Peterson's and those videos of WSL performing the form or are there significant differences like we see in Lam's? A secondary question, does anyone have any links to other examples of WSL's direct students performing the dummy form?

    Cheers.

  2. #2
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    Gary Lam's material differs in a lot of ways. Not just the dummy form, but his entire system in fact.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    Gary Lam's material differs in a lot of ways. Not just the dummy form, but his entire system in fact.
    Indeed! But 'system' level approach aside there seems, up until the latter kicking sections, more in common with respects to the dummy form? Anyway, thanks for responding. It seems that those users on these forums in a position to answer are choosing not to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paddington View Post
    Indeed! But 'system' level approach aside there seems, up until the latter kicking sections, more in common with respects to the dummy form? Anyway, thanks for responding. It seems that those users on these forums in a position to answer are choosing not to.
    His not the only one of Sigungs students... Dare i say gone off the page Look at Wam kam leung for instance. One of my Students the other day, was P!ssed with Wam kam leungs interpretation of the forms I told him take it easy as he must remember the systems conceptual . As he watched more of Sibak He said man he can sure kick some ar$e tho Look at them ,there all different in some form or fashion if its not functional Stay out the Kitchen or your gonna get burnt

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Jansingsang View Post
    His not the only one of Sigungs students... Dare i say gone off the page Look at Wam kam leung for instance. One of my Students the other day, was P!ssed with Wam kam leungs interpretation of the forms I told him take it easy as he must remember the systems conceptual . As he watched more of Sibak He said man he can sure kick some ar$e tho Look at them ,there all different in some form or fashion if its not functional Stay out the Kitchen or your gonna get burnt
    WKL has changed the system which is fine as he will be first to tell you that. He is not teaching or practicing WSL's interpretation of VT regardless of whether he was a student at any time.

    You are right though. He can kick some ar$e and you are also right that others have gone right off the page.

    The reason why they are "all" different is due to many many factors. Interpretation is not one of them although that reason is widely used to justify why there are so many differences from person to person. Generally people accept that idea. I personally do not.
    "Ving Tsun is a horse not everybody can ride"

    Wong Shun Leung.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Graham H View Post
    WKL has changed the system which is fine as he will be first to tell you that. He is not teaching or practicing WSL's interpretation of VT regardless of whether he was a student at any time.

    You are right though. He can kick some ar$e and you are also right that others have gone right off the page.

    The reason why they are "all" different is due to many many factors. Interpretation is not one of them although that reason is widely used to justify why there are so many differences from person to person. Generally people accept that idea. I personally do not.
    Agree. A lot of people " visited " WSL, few were actually " students ". It's also known by wsl students who the visitors were or the attendance of classes with wsl present. One wsl student left every day before wsl arrived to teach personally in the school, but claims he is a wsl student.....when at a seminar a few years later, the student was corrected about errors in thinking as he tried to interpret for WSL by another wsl student who learned from wsl and attended class when wsl was teaching directly.....
    Then the abstract nature of the system can be misinterpreted easily by the same lackadaisical approach, the student goes to Europe and teaches " his " ideas only to be discovered by students later and creating differences....

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by k gledhill View Post
    Agree. A lot of people " visited " WSL, few were actually " students ". It's also known by wsl students who the visitors were or the attendance of classes with wsl present. One wsl student left every day before wsl arrived to teach personally in the school, but claims he is a wsl student.....when at a seminar a few years later, the student was corrected about errors in thinking as he tried to interpret for WSL by another wsl student who learned from wsl and attended class when wsl was teaching directly.....
    Then the abstract nature of the system can be misinterpreted easily by the same lackadaisical approach, the student goes to Europe and teaches " his " ideas only to be discovered by students later and creating differences....
    Yes and as well as these people being only visitors or short term students, many went to WSL's school with some WC knowledge already. So the problem was not only that there was not enough time spent learning but also not enough time spent correcting the errors beforehand. Added to that are the problems that arise from relationships between people. The want of financial gain. Perhaps some students were not very talented as fighters and preferred a more theoretical approach. Many many problems = many many interpretations.

    It's not rocket science.

    Its the same in my school, my teachers school, my teachers teachers school and it would have been the same in Yip Man's school.
    "Ving Tsun is a horse not everybody can ride"

    Wong Shun Leung.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham H View Post
    WKL has changed the system which is fine as he will be first to tell you that. He is not teaching or practicing WSL's interpretation of VT regardless of whether he was a student at any time.

    You are right though. He can kick some ar$e and you are also right that others have gone right off the page.

    The reason why they are "all" different is due to many many factors. Interpretation is not one of them although that reason is widely used to justify why there are so many differences from person to person. Generally people accept that idea. I personally do not.
    On reflection you have a point as one I know of messed with it deliberately trying to reinvent the wheel so to speak and has caused a chain reaction of poor VT with students none the wiser

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by k gledhill View Post
    ..
    Then the abstract nature of the system can be misinterpreted easily by the same lackadaisical approach, the student goes to Europe and teaches " his " ideas only to be discovered by students later and creating differences....
    This bloke sounds familiar any clues

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Jansingsang View Post
    On reflection you have a point as one I know of messed with it deliberately trying to reinvent the wheel so to speak and has caused a chain reaction of poor VT with students none the wiser
    They are everywhere! Lock up your children! Lol
    "Ving Tsun is a horse not everybody can ride"

    Wong Shun Leung.

  11. #11
    Well, it is nice and all to hear about the variety out there but I would find it helpful to know some specific differences or perhaps have people's abstractions elucidated a little, with respects to the dummy form.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Paddington View Post
    Well, it is nice and all to hear about the variety out there but I would find it helpful to know some specific differences or perhaps have people's abstractions elucidated a little, with respects to the dummy form.
    Find a good teacher. Problem solved
    "Ving Tsun is a horse not everybody can ride"

    Wong Shun Leung.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Graham H View Post
    Find a good teacher. Problem solved
    If that were an easy and doable task do you think I would be resorting to asking questions on the Interwebs? Due to where we live and life circumstances some of us have no option but to ask online. It is not ideal but better than giving up training.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Paddington View Post
    If that were an easy and doable task do you think I would be resorting to asking questions on the Interwebs? Due to where we live and life circumstances some of us have no option but to ask online. It is not ideal but better than giving up training.
    Ok I understand but asking questions on the www about Wing Chun is as much use as a spaghetti ladder! I have to travel outside of the UK for my own learning and training. Whilst I'm home I make good use of my students/training partners for my own development.

    If I had to choose between poor Wing Chun and resorting to the web for information I would give up for sure. Unfortunately due to the problems with Wing Chun these days you would be better joining a MMA club or good Boxing club. If that does not appeal to you then maybe a male hooker and serial axe murderer may interest you!
    "Ving Tsun is a horse not everybody can ride"

    Wong Shun Leung.

  15. #15
    [QUOTE=Jansingsang;1260623]His not the only one of Sigungs students... Dare i say gone off the page Look at Wam kam leung for instance. One of my Students the other day, was P!ssed with Wam kam leungs interpretation of the forms I told him take it easy as he must remember the systems conceptual .
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Sure wing chun is conceptual -but that does necessarily clarify things for people who do not have good guidance.
    Much of this thread involves the blind leading the blind.

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