Obasse & Kevin Gledhill chi sau

[BPWT.]

Don't know what "PBWT" is or who "Obasse" is... but yeah, Obasi backed out of an actual fight and went the route of trying to fight through chi-sau so he had a better chance since he'd be the only one fighting in such a format.

As a result, he looked like an idiot, and a double idiot when he posted it as a "Chi Sao Challenge Match". Whether you call it chi-sau or fighting, which it was neither, he just looked like an angry spazkid trying to prove a point. The only point he proved is that he indeed has no structure and actually sucks hard.

We know it's not a fight, and yes, perhaps Obasi was being a fool. But if they chatted/argued online and then they met to Chi Sau I think that no one expects them to simply roll (Poon Sau). Kevin says that "Sean is the strongest guy I have ever chi sao'ed", so its clear they both met to Chi Sau and that means freeing things up with some Gor Sau.

The whole thing is kinda stupid, but nonetheless with Kevin's 20-odd year experience in the Ving Tsun system and his rather critical posts on this forum regarding Wing Chun outside of the PBVT system... well, watching that video I didn't see Kevin doing the things that he says make the PBVT method so good. It was a surprise.

But they both had the balls to meet and exchange in some way, and that takes bottle (especially with a camera rolling and it filmed with the knowledge that a youtube upload is just a few clicks away).

[LFJ]

If it was a known "challenge", I certainly wonder why Kevin would even agree to do chi-sau as a challenge. Isn't he always talking about how it's not fighting, nor a competition? Also, the end of the clip where Kevin says this isn't our chi-sau sounds as if it was supposed to be an exchange of ideas and Obasi wasn't getting it. It's obvious Obasi thought it was certainly a challenge match of some sort. But again, it's embarrassing if he's proud of himself.

[Wayfaring]

For contrast, in another world, here's how people spar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzwCLF6EtLQ

Now I'm sure there will be a large quantity of people that won't be able to see past the "style vs. style" aspect of this. I could care less about style. So humor me. If you could discount the labels on the people performing these actions, what could you learn?

[JPinAZ]

When you're right you're right: Ali R., you're spot on.. in this thread anyway

Wayfaring, too funny and you couldn't be more closer to the truth.

[BPWT.]

It's obvious Obasi thought it was certainly a challenge match of some sort. But again, it's embarrassing if he's proud of himself.

Agreed. But also I don't think Kevin would be too happy with his performance either. What would PB himself make of it, I wonder.

[LFJ]

Agreed. But also I don't think Kevin would be too happy with his performance either. What would PB himself make of it, I wonder.

Well, as has been stated, he could have just started free striking, as Obasi was way off balance and exposed while Kevin was pretty controlled nonetheless, but then it would have been an all out fight.

[Frost]

For contrast, in another world, here's how people spar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzwCLF6EtLQ

Now I'm sure there will be a large quantity of people that won't be able to see past the "style vs. style" aspect of this. I could care less about style. So humor me. If you could discount the labels on the people performing these actions, what could you learn?

if people were honest they would learn alot of what they train would not be of any use to them in such an enviroment, that they had no concept of real pressure and making their skills work under real pressuse, and that alot of what they have been taught is redundant now

[BPWT.]

Well, as has been stated, he could have just started free striking, as Obasi was way off balance and exposed while Kevin was pretty controlled nonetheless, but then it would have been an all out fight.

Gor Sau is a free exchange - so why would Kevin not be striking?

If we're honest, Obasi is a big guy who used his strength and weight and was often off balance but he still had the upper hand. Kevin was primarily trying to defend against the strikes (chasing hands?) without counter attacking. I don't know, to me what he was doing seemed to be a) what he critiques in others, and b) against what he says all those PBVT drills seem to be for.

[Paddington]

Agreed. But also I don't think Kevin would be too happy with his performance either. What would PB himself make of it, I wonder.

Well, PB did touch hands with Obasi and I think there is a clip of it so Obasi does know what chi sau is like from PB directly.

[Paddington]

Gor Sau is a free exchange - so why would Kevin not be striking?

If we're honest, Obasi is a big guy who used his strength and weight and was often off balance but he still had the upper hand. Kevin was primarily trying to defend against the strikes (chasing hands?) without counter attacking. I don't know, to me what he was doing seemed to be a) what he critiques in others, and b) against what he says all those PBVT drills seem to be for.

I don't know, fear I guess; Kevin can answer. I have chi saued with guys the size of Obasi, perhaps bigger, and it was a frightening experience when it started to get very aggressive to the point of fighting. With fear you do end up chasing hands as you enter a prey rather than predator state of mind.

[Miguel]

A Negative: WTF is Obasi even doing? Leaning WAY fwd and just pushing - to the point both his feet come off the ground several times. No self centerline, no control & no wing chun IMO.

This.

The only fighting system I see Shawn displaying is the little-known martial art of "I'll beat you to death with my face and chin". I believe that one was invented by 12 year olds on playgrounds.

[Jansingsang]

What were they supposed to do? Do you think this was a fight?

That's the problem with two peoplagendase with vastly different ideas about what chi-sau is doing it together. When one guy tries to fight from it, it results in both looking rather silly. Then critics who don't understand it want to evaluate it as if it were a fight.

It's clear to anyone who knows anything that Kevin was obviously not trying to fight while Obassi was, although not very well. If Kevin stopped trying to get into chi-sau format with him and just starting free striking, I think it would have looked much different.

Of course, Obassi's quick to cut the camera when Kevin begins to give his critique and explain what his chi-sau is. That's something that should have been on video as well. But Obassi got the footage he wanted, apparently. It's embarrassing if he's proud of himself.

The oxymoronic title "Chi Sao Challenge Match" shows how retarded he is and I doubt Kevin was under the same impression that that was what they were doing.

You've hit the nail on the head kevin was obviously setup in this what you have is two guy's with totally different agendas kevin obliged Obassi request to Chi sao unknown to him self he was heading into chaos and madness with a guy with very limited knowledge of what Chi soas objectives are ? On the other hand kevin could have saved face even in this stage by stomping his ar$e at 0 : 16 When they disengaged arms at this stage i would have punched him in the face and put his off balanced ar$e on the ground with a leg sweep And say What was that This is a prime example when you let others into your game thinking that they play the same game

Many moons ago the same thing happened to me kevin actually knows this fella He wanted to Chi soa as to prove a some kinda point but made out he was genuine I obliged him caught him out with a palm strike never struck him hard just showed the opening from this the sucker came in with a over hand punch striking me in my eye I backed him up swung him into some lockers rapid punched him i was at work at the time Crazy Sh!T... He was trying to knee me it was a load of crap couldn't believe it was so poor we got parted He saw me in a Chinese restaurant a few days later like being in a movie was so so real his friend told him that it was me but he didn't want to know I wonder why from that time on i never mixed it with no one i don't know.. My teacher told me you have to be friends when you doing Chi soa cause no one plays the same tune

I only broke that code 6 years ago when i went to a Gary lam seminar i had to putdown some stuff because people were in doubt that had stuff.. When they saw what i had there was like Ohh Careful CAREFUL I don't take no prisoners, but i don't go out to hurt no one either this is my 2 cents on this issue peace!

[Wayfaring]

I feel that he would’ve been more of a man (not saying he isn’t) to just walk away from ‘Obasse’, after all, Kevin didn’t challenge anyone, so he had the upper hand by simply moving outside of that invitation. But he went tit for tat before he’d jump out of the water, which in the end brought more shame then respect.

So you're saying there's too much drama in wing chun for people to spar with each other outside their own schools? maybe kinda saying that.

I mean I love the art but I sure do hate how people train it. It's so dumb.

Normal to me would be like me, you, Obassi, kev - "hey open mat at 9 guys" over text. warmups to get the blood flowing, maybe some light chi sau for timing/touch, a little heavier either pad work or back and forth gloves, if we're doing ground light rolling, then set a round timer at 3:00 with 1:00 rest with about 20 rounds on it and work, switch off every round - just hands or hands and lighter kicks. It will escalate on it's own, but scale it back when it does after a bit. speed no power. when people's tongues are dragging, hang out and BS about technique and concepts. if someone is feeling jumpy, or like they want to battle a little, do a couple 5 min rounds a little harder and follow the escalation path a little longer. as far as gauging what pace, that sparring clip I put up was labeled "MMA hard sparring". imo actually it was 1 5 min round, and they escalated about half way thru and towards the end but most of the round was lighter. after which, grab food and a pint depending on schedules, etc.

But it seems to me WCK people sparring are "not normal". I mean what, before we do the above paragraph I've got to not like you because:

a. you cross train in boxing
b. your lineage - how close to ip man, did you learn the "real" dummy and knives or was it not real
c. do you really chi sau the right way or is it the wrong way
d. how many private lessons did your sifu really take from Ip Man
e. have you ever insulted me on the internet

I mean I could go on but all that just sounds really, really, really, really, really stupid to me. And it's not some ancient samurai code of stupidity why we have to do that, or a higher enlightened path of Buddhism stupidity either. Or a more enlightened pure lineage path of stupidity. it's just plain stupidity.

I'm a little emotional right now. I'm getting older, and recently a guy I know a BJJ instructor in Denver committed suicide. Life's too d@mn short for all this stupidity people. Train with each other. Enjoy it while you can, because there's a day coming when you will never be able to again.

[Ali. R]

So you're saying there's too much drama in wing chun for people to spar with each other outside their own schools? maybe kinda saying that.

I mean I love the art but I sure do hate how people train it. It's so dumb.

Normal to me would be like me, you, Obassi, kev - "hey open mat at 9 guys" over text. warmups to get the blood flowing, maybe some light chi sau for timing/touch, a little heavier either pad work or back and forth gloves, if we're doing ground light rolling, then set a round timer at 3:00 with 1:00 rest with about 20 rounds on it and work, switch off every round - just hands or hands and lighter kicks. It will escalate on it's own, but scale it back when it does after a bit. speed no power. when people's tongues are dragging, hang out and BS about technique and concepts. if someone is feeling jumpy, or like they want to battle a little, do a couple 5 min rounds a little harder and follow the escalation path a little longer. as far as gauging what pace, that sparring clip I put up was labeled "MMA hard sparring". imo actually it was 1 5 min round, and they escalated about half way thru and towards the end but most of the round was lighter. after which, grab food and a pint depending on schedules, etc.

But it seems to me WCK people sparring are "not normal". I mean what, before we do the above paragraph I've got to not like you because:

a. you cross train in boxing
b. your lineage - how close to ip man, did you learn the "real" dummy and knives or was it not real
c. do you really chi sau the right way or is it the wrong way
d. how many private lessons did your sifu really take from Ip Man
e. have you ever insulted me on the internet

I mean I could go on but all that just sounds really, really, really, really, really stupid to me. And it's not some ancient samurai code of stupidity why we have to do that, or a higher enlightened path of Buddhism stupidity either. Or a more enlightened pure lineage path of stupidity. it's just plain stupidity.

I'm a little emotional right now. I'm getting older, and recently a guy I know a BJJ instructor in Denver committed suicide. Life's too d@mn short for all this stupidity people. Train with each other. Enjoy it while you can, because there's a day coming when you will never be able to again.

There is a time and place for everything and sometimes doing nothing is the best way to go. ‘Paul Newman’, while winning a poker game (by bluffing with a very bad hand) in ‘Cool Hand Luke’.

Inmate said; “He beat you with nothing, just like he did me when we fought in the courtyard, he had nothing".

Cool Hand Luke said; “Sometimes nothing could be a real cool hand”…….


Take care,

[KPM]

Wow! I haven't been here in awhile and when I come back this is the first thread I read! Here's my thoughts, if anyone cares. First, I can believe that Kevin was set up. But it seemed obvious to me and should have been obvious to Kevin within about 5 seconds that Obasi wasn't interested in a calm cooperative roll. Second, I have to agree that I didn't see any of the things that Kevin has so strongly and frequently asserted here in this forum about how superior PBVT is to everyone else's Wing Chun. I have to agree that if I didn't know who he was in this clip I would easily believe he was from the Moy Yat, Ip Chun, Ip Ching etc. lineage. I saw nothing of the superior angling and directness espoused by Kevin here in this forum. I believe that Kevin was likely unaware of what he was in for and was surprised by Obasi's response, but I would think he would have gotten over that surprise in about 5 seconds! I have to say I was more than a little disappointed. Now rather than clam up and never do another video again, I'd like to see Kevin put out more videos. Better videos to prove this one was a fluke.