Obasse & Kevin Gledhill chi sau

[Kaybee]

Good statements, Graham! Nothing more to add.

[LFJ]

Its amazing I have been on this forum now for about 10 years as a reader and then member, and in that time I have watched nearly every member say thy recognise this problem with wing chun, but assure everyone who will listen that they train differently and as such can make this simple direct system work, but of course cant post any clips of them or their lineage actually doing this, we just have to trust their word that they are doing the sparring etc and as a result can it work against other systems
And when we do finally see clips from the majority of people they look like what kevin posted……strange that

So?

I believe I have explained to you before;

That is not a problem for me as it has no consequence on the efficacy of my personal training. My training is validated by my efforts and experience alone, not whether there is good video footage of someone else to be seen somewhere nor by obtaining the approval of random viewers on the internet.

If you can't understand and relate to that point and keep bringing this up in every other post you make, I can't imagine much of your time in these last 10 years has been spent training.

[Frost]

So?

I believe I have explained to you before;

That is not a problem for me as it has no consequence on the efficacy of my personal training. My training is validated by my efforts and experience alone, not whether there is good video footage of someone else to be seen somewhere nor by obtaining the approval of random viewers on the internet.

If you can't understand and relate to that point and keep bringing this up in every other post you make, I can't imagine much of your time in these last 10 years has been spent training.

so your defending the indefensible (something kevins teacher and mates on this forum can't bring themselves to do) has nothing to do with your defending the wsl lineage then and thus validate your own training... ok ....

[LFJ]

so your defending the indefensible (something kevins teacher and mates on this forum can't bring themselves to do) has nothing to do with your defending the wsl lineage then and thus validate your own training... ok ....

What? .....

[sanjuro_ronin]

I think this is one of those cases ( again) where someone was very "vocal" about how their MA ( in this case WC) was so much better than anyone else's and how ( once again) video evidence showed that is not the case.

[Frost]

I think this is one of those cases ( again) where someone was very "vocal" about how their MA ( in this case WC) was so much better than anyone else's and how ( once again) video evidence showed that is not the case.

where were you 13 pages ago lol....

[sanjuro_ronin]

where were you 13 pages ago lol....

It's not a slight on Kevin ( though it can be argued that he deserves it) it is simply a statement of fact.
Anyone's MA is ONLY as good as the people it is trained against.
This doesn't mean that Kevin doesn't train with good people, it simply means that because He was used to "A", when he got exposed to "B", he didn't have the tools to address it.

[slick69]

I think this is one of those cases ( again) where someone was very "vocal" about how their MA ( in this case WC) was so much better than anyone else's and how ( once again) video evidence showed that is not the case.

Best comment on thread. I hope this leads to more constructive debate on this forum. Realistically most people would struggle to handle Obassi, he is an MMA fighter and 245lb muscular person. I think when you spend so much time bashing other linages you start to believe you own hype and not learn from others...

[sanjuro_ronin]

Best comment on thread. I hope this leads to more constructive debate on this forum. Realistically most people would struggle to handle Obassi, he is an MMA fighter and 245lb muscular person. I think when you spend so much time bashing other linages you start to believe you own hype and not learn from others...

Indeed.
I do NOT think that I would be able to handle Shawn in a chi sao match, or in any match probably,
He is big and strong and knows how to fight ( a very tough combination to overcome).
I think that I most certainly would NOT play his game BUT to what degree of effectiveness I would be able to impose myself on him is simply unknown.
Only "armchair fighters" make comments like " I would do this" or "I can beat that guy based on what I see", about a professional fighter.

[Frost]

Indeed.
I do NOT think that I would be able to handle Shawn in a chi sao match, or in any match probably,
He is big and strong and knows how to fight ( a very tough combination to overcome).
I think that I most certainly would NOT play his game BUT to what degree of effectiveness I would be able to impose myself on him is simply unknown.
Only "armchair fighters" make comments like " I would do this" or "I can beat that guy based on what I see", about a professional fighter.

and yet people on this very thread have done just that, anyone who has spent time around fighters knows not to judge how they look in a fight, but judge the outcome, they also know even amateurs are on a much higher plain in terms of skills and abilities than most class atendees, people saying they would have escalated it with this guy, or would have hit him when he was overextended etc really should try that with someone that big who has a track record of fighting full contact, somehow I doubt they would do better than Kevin or would be so ready to escalate with someone like that in front of them..

[slick69]

and yet people on this very thread have done just that, anyone who has spent time around fighters knows not to judge how they look in a fight, but judge the outcome, they also know even amateurs are on a much higher plain in terms of skills and abilities than most class atendees, people saying they would have escalated it with this guy, or would have hit him when he was overextended etc really should try that with someone that big who has a track record of fighting full contact, somehow I doubt they would do better than Kevin or would be so ready to escalate with someone like that in front of them..

This is the danger of Kevin bashing other linages approach and my Wing Chun can defeat all logic. They start to believe their own hype and but themselves and their students in danger. Kevin had no business trying to fight a heavy weight MMA fighter.

[jimhalliwell]

FWIW

I certainly don't believe Kev has had two lessons from PB before teaching for him?
Do you honestly think that PB would do that? I don't know but it would be great to hear PB himself on the matter. I haven't got a clue what the answer is but I certainly wont be changing my linage which is WSL on the strength of a short video which indeed to me looked crap! totally crap! and I have been trying to get PB to my school for years in the UK but keep being pointed to senior students in the Uk none of whom I want to see! and if he wants to show us his stuff he is of course welcome for I personally have met the guy and done some chi sau with him for a very short time and respect him a lot. If he did decide to visit your all welcome. But for now I would welcome some comments from PB at this stage as the Kev flogging continues.

Jim.

[LFJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_3F6Zwbp9E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tonwiZLXOto

Obasi failed an MMA tryout where he fell on his ass just trying to do a round kick on a pad. He complained it's because he's a "wing chun man", but he has no personal teacher and just uses strength to arm-struggle in chi-sau where in this clip with Kevin he was also overextended and off balance throughout, even though Kevin wasn't even doing anything. Not a good record against inanimate objects!

The only thing he's really got going for him is his size and strength. If that makes you all think he's an elite, because he's been in a couple amateur fights against crap competition, and suffered a GnP in his pro debut, okay, y'all are easily impressed and intimidated, but I think he needs to find a good coach to guide him and make something of his potential and ambition. If he remains a "wing chun ronin" his record isn't going to improve.

[Grumblegeezer]

FWIW

I certainly don't believe Kev has had two lessons from PB before teaching for him?
Do you honestly think that PB would do that? I don't know but it would be great to hear PB himself on the matter. I haven't got a clue what the answer is but I certainly wont be changing my linage which is WSL on the strength of a short video which indeed to me looked crap! totally crap! and I have been trying to get PB to my school for years in the UK but keep being pointed to senior students in the Uk none of whom I want to see! and if he wants to show us his stuff he is of course welcome for I personally have met the guy and done some chi sau with him for a very short time and respect him a lot. If he did decide to visit your all welcome. But for now I would welcome some comments from PB at this stage as the Kev flogging continues.

Jim.

Good lord man! You practice PB/WSLVT. You live in the UK. It's a short hop to Germany. You can even freakin' drive there from what I hear. And you can't get over there to train with the top guy? What gives?

Now as for the "Kev flogging" ... most people aren't bashing him for having trouble trying to do Chi Sao with an uncooperative Shawn Obasi. They are giving jabs for his holier-than-thou hypocracy expressed over a period of years on this forum.

And as many have noted, it's not just Kevin and the PBVT guys. Too many WC/VT people tend to have the same problem. If more WC people had a little humility and were able to admit that they didn't have all the answers, we'd be a lot better received in the MA community.

[jimhalliwell]

Good lord man! You practice PB/WSLVT. You live in the UK. It's a short hop to Germany. You can even freakin' drive there from what I hear. And you can't get over there to train with the top guy? What gives?

Now as for the "Kev flogging" ... most people aren't bashing him for having trouble trying to do Chi Sao with an uncooperative Shawn Obasi. They are giving jabs for his holier-than-thou hypocracy expressed over a period of years on this forum.

And as many have noted, it's not just Kevin and the PBVT guys. Too many WC/VT people tend to have the same problem. If more WC people had a little humility and were able to admit that they didn't have all the answers, we'd be a lot better received in the MA community.

Good Lord man! I have been to Germany and trained but not with him!
I'm saying there are plenty of people who would like to see him here that's all! and I am certainly not rocking up to his place with 20 guys!

thanks for the advice anyway!

Jim