Obasse & Kevin Gledhill chi sau

[YouKnowWho]

I think it's more fun to discuss the WC sticky hands in nature than to talk about who beats whom in the WC community.

How will you train in WC stick hands that you allow your opponent to move his arms freely, but in combat you try not to allow your opponent to move his arms freely. Is that a contradiction? If we look at this from the opposite angle, should you try to eliminate your opponent's free arms movement ASAP? What kind of training drill can lead you there?

How to eliminate your opponent's arms freedom? Here is a good examples that you should "trap" your opponent's arms ASAP. He had used a lot of switch hands in this clip.

[BPWT.]

How to handle a big guy…….

Take care,

Loi Lau, Hoi Sung.

As someone said to me at a recent seminar, "All of Yip Man Wing Tsun [Wing Chun/Ving Tsun] is in just eight characters (LLHS, LSJC).

[Ali. R]

Loi Lau, Hoi Sung.

As someone said to me at a recent seminar, "All of Yip Man Wing Tsun [Wing Chun/Ving Tsun] is in just eight characters (LLHS, LSJC).

Exactly,,,, sink, snatch and drop them clean out their boots.


Take care,

[LFJ]

Why is this thread still going?

I reckon merely because the people in the video are known to us here and the type of arrogant lineage bashing that has gone on by one of the participants who didn't perform as well as their stories suggested they would. If it were just two random guys no one knew we'd all have a laugh and move on. There wouldn't be more than two or three comments on the thread just to say- no. Also because I've been playing devil's advocate to counter people going to the extreme- that Kevin just can't handle it. Without sufficient knowledge of the set up either case could appear to be true.

predicting alternate future parallel universes.

What are you talking about? My rhetorical question was meant to point out that touching someone in a chi-sau exchange means nothing if it is with such fncked up posture- head pulled back, spine arched, arm reaching and scoring a slap. At any degree of intensity good structure should be maintained. Kevin used a well structured palm strike although he pulled it. Just because Obasi's little slap landed doesn't make it better.

[Wayfaring]

I reckon merely because the people in the video are known to us here and the type of arrogant lineage bashing that has gone on by one of the participants who didn't perform as well as their stories suggested they would. If it were just two random guys no one knew we'd all have a laugh and move on. There wouldn't be more than two or three comments on the thread just to say- no. Also because I've been playing devil's advocate to counter people going to the extreme- that Kevin just can't handle it. Without sufficient knowledge of the set up either case could appear to be true.

Yeah pretty much all of us have picked up on the "pure water" attitude projected by many PBVT guys. So they brought much of this on themselves.

What are you talking about? My rhetorical question was meant to point out that touching someone in a chi-sau exchange means nothing if it is with such fncked up posture- head pulled back, spine arched, arm reaching and scoring a slap. At any degree of intensity good structure should be maintained. Kevin used a well structured palm strike although he pulled it. Just because Obasi's little slap landed doesn't make it better.

Yes that's the same point made in the video Ali posted. I liked that video. One of very few I've seen where the guy teaching has a sense of humor in WCK. His points are good, with the spaghetti arms stuff and the leaning. But very low level - like explaining the first fundamental concept of forward intent. And Obasi was doing none of those things he was talking about. He was not flailing arms and going around the bridge and leaning. He was grabbing the wrists in a chi sau roll with very strong grip strength and HAD forward intent and control of center. That's why kevin couldn't do anything. kevin did not "use a well structured palm strike although he pulled it". he was basically being thrown around by someone who is bigger and stronger than him by wrist grabs. the wrist grab would fold over the top, bringing bodies close enough together for an elbow strike and knees from that "modified clinch".

[LFJ]

And Obasi was doing none of those things he was talking about. He was not flailing arms and going around the bridge and leaning. He was grabbing the wrists in a chi sau roll with very strong grip strength and HAD forward intent and control of center. That's why kevin couldn't do anything. kevin did not "use a well structured palm strike although he pulled it". he was basically being thrown around by someone who is bigger and stronger than him by wrist grabs. the wrist grab would fold over the top, bringing bodies close enough together for an elbow strike and knees from that "modified clinch".

Why does this sentence seem to just be thrown in there without a thought? Do you know what part of the clip I was talking about? It's not about wrist grabs. It was basically the only thing Kevin did offensively, and it was structurally better than almost anything Obasi did.

At :21 they came together. Kevin was on the inside, then switched to the outside. When their roll came back down he swam back under and did a palm strike from the inside that caused Obasi to jerk his head back and answer with an overreaching slap while arching his spine backward, meaning no root- essentially a gotcha b!tch slap.

Kevin pulled his and Obasi tapped his face. Does that make Obasi's better because he landed it? Only if you're playing tag for points and don't care about structure and power.

[Wayfaring]

At :21 they came together. Kevin was on the inside, then switched to the outside. When their roll came back down he swam back under and did a palm strike from the inside that caused Obasi to jerk his head back and answer with an overreaching slap while arching his spine backward, meaning no root- essentially a gotcha b!tch slap.

Kevin pulled his and Obasi tapped his face. Does that make Obasi's better because he landed it? Only if you're playing tag for points and don't care about structure and power.

I looked at it. It looked like kevin feinted a palm strike that caused a reaction which was a head jerk and throwing the hands up. the reaction had the inside line but wasn't really an offensive technique - just kind of throwing the hands up their into the face as a reaction. the reaction kept kevin from advancing.

this is ridiculous.

[LFJ]

the reaction had the inside line but wasn't really an offensive technique - just kind of throwing the hands up their into the face as a reaction. the reaction kept kevin from advancing.

If you can slow it down, Obasi's hand was late. The palm strike went to his face and pulled back. Obasi's hand came up after the palm was retracted. At speed it looked like Obasi got inside of it, but he didn't. He was late. The palm may have even grazed him which caused him to jerk back.

[Wayfaring]

If you can slow it down, Obasi's hand was late. The palm strike went to his face and pulled back. Obasi's hand came up after the palm was retracted. At speed it looked like Obasi got inside of it, but he didn't. He was late. The palm may have even grazed him which caused him to jerk back.

It was a feint, at any speed. Could he have hit the face IF he fully committed to the strike? Maybe. Who knows. He didn't capitalize on the reaction to the feint either. Again, this is all ridiculous. I'm sure in that exchange kevin was scared to hit obasi hard for fear of escalation and retaliation like about 99% of this forum would be in the same situation.

[LFJ]

It was a feint, at any speed. Could he have hit the face IF he fully committed to the strike? Maybe. Who knows. He didn't capitalize on the reaction to the feint either.

At any rate, you're completely missing or ignoring my point, which is about the importance of maintaining good structure no matter what you're doing. That's one of the objectives of chi-sau training. There is no value to most of what Obasi was doing because there was no root or structure.

[KPM]

At any rate, you're completely missing or ignoring my point, which is about the importance of maintaining good structure no matter what you're doing. That's one of the objectives of chi-sau training. There is no value to most of what Obasi was doing because there was no root or structure.

And yet Obasi was the one man-handling Kevin and getting in shots while Kevin (with presumably good structure) was not. And what Obasi was doing had "no value"? It may not have been picture-perfect Wing Chun, but only a blind man would say it had no value. Evidently Kevin himself thought it had some value!!!! What has Wayfaring said several times? ....."this is ridiculous"....yes it is!

[LFJ]

And yet Obasi was the one man-handling Kevin and getting in shots while Kevin (with presumably good structure) was not. And what Obasi was doing had "no value"? It may not have been picture-perfect Wing Chun, but only a blind man would say it had no value. Evidently Kevin himself thought it had some value!!!! What has Wayfaring said several times? ....."this is ridiculous"....yes it is!

It has value if you think this is what fighting is like and you win by shoving and scoring touch points, but neither in developmental chi-sau or the real world.

[KPM]

It has value if you think this is what fighting is like and you win by shoving and scoring touch points, but neither in developmental chi-sau or the real world.

So you don't think Obasi would have man-handled Kevin and got in multiple shots in the "real world" like he did in this Chi Sao? "Real fighting" is whatever gets the job done. WSL himself said to be WCK's master, not its slave. So if you don't think "this is what fighting is like", then you need a reality check.

[LFJ]

So you don't think Obasi would have man-handled Kevin and got in multiple shots in the "real world" like he did in this Chi Sao? "Real fighting" is whatever gets the job done. WSL himself said to be WCK's master, not its slave. So if you don't think "this is what fighting is like", then you need a reality check.

First of all, what you idiots seem to be missing is that I was isolating a certain point for discussion rather than talking about the disaster of an exchange as a whole. Do you not agree that maintaining structure is important? Is that not one of the objectives of chi-sau, to maintain structure under slowly increased pressure? Do you think Obasi's b!tch tag is a meaningful offensive action that gets the job done? If you're suggesting Obasi would have behaved the same way in a real fight then it would be over for him quickly against anyone who knew how to just punch or kick to exploit his gaping holes or take advantage of his unbalanced overreaching. The only reason he handled Kevin is because they kept holding each other's wrists. If you are seriously imagining that chi-sau is what fighting is like, then I imagine your experience doesn't go beyond that. Reality check? How about a Youtube check of Obasi's pro debut... He did a wonderful job manhandling that guy...

[KPM]

First of all, what you idiots seem to be missing is that I was isolating a certain point for discussion rather than talking about the disaster of an exchange as a whole. Do you not agree that maintaining structure is important? Is that not one of the objectives of chi-sau, to maintain structure under slowly increased pressure? Do you think Obasi's b!tch tag is a meaningful offensive action that gets the job done? If you're suggesting Obasi would have behaved the same way in a real fight then it would be over for him quickly against anyone who knew how to just punch or kick to exploit his gaping holes or take advantage of his unbalanced overreaching. The only reason he handled Kevin is because they kept holding each other's wrists. If you are seriously imagining that chi-sau is what fighting is like, then I imagine your experience doesn't go beyond that. Reality check? How about a Youtube check of Obasi's pro debut... He did a wonderful job manhandling that guy...

Idiots? Really? You've run out of anything else to keep this pointless thread going so you resort to name calling? You said that what Obasi did had little value. It sure seemed to me that you were referring to the clip as a whole when you said it and not "isolating a point". I pointed out that he was getting the job done against Kevin regardless of how ugly it looked. That's all that counts in a "real fight." If you don't think Obasi would have used more than "wrist holding" to put Kevin on his back in a real exchange, then yes you do need a reality check! There, I'm done. I will no longer participate in your pointless attempts to defend Kevin's performance in that clip.