Obasse & Kevin Gledhill chi sau

[KPM]

Emphasizing the badness? What you and KPM are STILL doing is making the assumptions you want to make, even when the information is given to you straight from the horse's mouth.

"Straight from the horse's mouth" backed up every part of my previous summary except the part about who was holding the camera. So just maybe its YOU that is making too many assumptions here!

[LFJ]

"Straight from the horse's mouth" backed up every part of my previous summary except the part about who was holding the camera.

Um, no it didn't.

[slick69]

Haha, okay. Make an excuse to not chi-sau and just fight, because chi-sau is a more realistic test of skill?

I'd think those who don't spar and just chi-sau are the ones hiding from something. How is doing something far closer to realistic free fighting a way to hide limited ability? What is your ultimate training goal? Not to fight? If chi-sau is the highest test of skill in your Wing Chun, then that shows what your ultimate training goal is. You won't even be facing people outside of the style. You're lying to yourself.

We all train Ip Man Wing Chun right? All Ip Man students chi sau with each other right? So why have you come up with your no chi sau rules if it's not to hide your limited understanding of the system?

Just because you spar does not mean you should not chi sau. Chi sau and sparring are complementary training aids. Stop using sparing as a way to get out of chi sau, unless what your doing is NOT Wing Chun.

[KPM]

Um, no it didn't.

Um, yes it did. Read it again:

1. Kevin and Obasi exchanged words...whatever they may be...on the internet. They agreed to meet.
2. Obasi had a cameraman in attendance filming the whole thing.
3. It became obvious within about 5 seconds that Obasi had something in mind other than a friendly roll in Chi Sao.
4. Kevin did not perform well at all other than possibly maintaining some decent structure, and was actually hit (even though lightly) on several occasions.
5. Kevin has, for several years now, extolled the virtues of PBVT and how much superior it is to other Wing Chun, often in a somewhat rude and insulting manner to other lineages.
6. Those of us here that are very familiar with #5 certainly expected to see more from Kevin considering #1, 2, & 3 above.

This is really getting kind of old now LFJ. You are the only one that continues to defend Kevin's performance.

[jimhalliwell]

Um, yes it did. Read it again:

1. Kevin and Obasi exchanged words...whatever they may be...on the internet. They agreed to meet.
2. Obasi had a cameraman in attendance filming the whole thing.
3. It became obvious within about 5 seconds that Obasi had something in mind other than a friendly roll in Chi Sao.
4. Kevin did not perform well at all other than possibly maintaining some decent structure, and was actually hit (even though lightly) on several occasions.
5. Kevin has, for several years now, extolled the virtues of PBVT and how much superior it is to other Wing Chun, often in a somewhat rude and insulting manner to other lineages.
6. Those of us here that are very familiar with #5 certainly expected to see more from Kevin considering #1, 2, & 3 above.

This is really getting kind of old now LFJ. You are the only one that continues to defend Kevin's performance.

Umm I think we cant really judge either guys Ving Tsun/wing Chun on this short video to be honest!
I for one don't know if there are any others videos of kevin on the net but I'll reserve judgement until I see more!

Jim.

[LFJ]

We all train Ip Man Wing Chun right?

We'd all like to think so, but honestly in all likelihood none of us do.

All Ip Man students chi sau with each other right? So why have you come up with your no chi sau rules if it's not to hide your limited understanding of the system?

It's clear different students can have vastly different understandings of the system and everything in it, to the point where they may as well be different systems, and that's the way I view the different lineages.

Just because you spar does not mean you should not chi sau. Chi sau and sparring are complementary training aids.

I do both, but one solely as a developmental drill and the other as a more live test of skill. If I'm testing and comparing skill with a fighter of another system, why do a developmental drill that's so artificial as opposed to doing the closest thing we can to free fighting, especially when we aren't on the same page with what we're actually doing?

Doing chi-sau with other lineages/systems will make it competitive like some sort of game and that then is just an artificial fight so far removed from reality that it really serves no purpose, at least not when compared to actually sparring.

You may think differently, but that just shows we don't train the same system.

[LFJ]

1. Kevin and Obasi exchanged words...whatever they may be...on the internet. They agreed to meet.
2. Obasi had a cameraman in attendance filming the whole thing.
3. It became obvious within about 5 seconds that Obasi had something in mind other than a friendly roll in Chi Sao.
4. Kevin did not perform well at all other than possibly maintaining some decent structure, and was actually hit (even though lightly) on several occasions.
5. Kevin has, for several years now, extolled the virtues of PBVT and how much superior it is to other Wing Chun, often in a somewhat rude and insulting manner to other lineages.
6. Those of us here that are very familiar with #5 certainly expected to see more from Kevin considering #1, 2, & 3 above.

How about a list on Obasi? That should be entertaining.

You are the only one that continues to defend Kevin's performance.

Depends on what you mean by "defend".

[slick69]

It's clear different students can have vastly different understandings of the system and everything in it, to
Doing chi-sau with other lineages/systems will make it competitive like some sort of game and that then is just an artificial fight so far removed from reality that it really serves no purpose, at least not when compared to actually sparring.

You may think differently, but that just shows we don't train the same system.

If only way to test and learn from each other is sparring then we are no different to MMA (even jui-jitsu gets on the mat and role).
If your not willing to chi-sau fine, but then don't call what your doing Wing Chun and please test yourself in the MMA scene, because us Wing Chun guys are learning a system where testing one's skill evolves around chi sau.

[KPM]

Umm I think we cant really judge either guys Ving Tsun/wing Chun on this short video to be honest!
I for one don't know if there are any others videos of kevin on the net but I'll reserve judgement until I see more!

Jim.

So, are you saying that like LFJ, you thought that was a good performance from Kevin? That getting pushed all around and tagged on multiple occasions without returning anything himself or shutting down Obasi's attempts is not necessarily a bad thing? That maybe he CHOSE to get man-handled by Obasi? We are not and have not been judging anyone's Wing Chun as a whole here. We have been talking about what we see on that particular video clip, and what that might imply. Nothing personal, I'm only pushing the point because your comment could very easily give LFJ more reason to continue to defend what we are seeing in that clip.

[LFJ]

If only way to test and learn from each other is sparring then we are no different to MMA (even jui-jitsu gets on the mat and role).
If your not willing to chi-sau fine, but then don't call what your doing Wing Chun and please test yourself in the MMA scene, because us Wing Chun guys are learning a system where testing one's skill evolves around chi sau.

Okay, man. Keep rolling.

[LFJ]

So, are you saying that like LFJ, you thought that was a good performance from Kevin?

Where did I say it was a good performance? Keep makin' sh!t up and I'ma slap you.

[slick69]

Okay, man. Keep rolling.

I will. Good luck forum sparing and your new system...

[LFJ]

I will. Good luck forum sparing and your new system...

Thanks. Good luck fantasy fighting!

[BPWT..]

Umm I think we cant really judge either guys Ving Tsun/wing Chun on this short video to be honest!
I for one don't know if there are any others videos of kevin on the net but I'll reserve judgement until I see more!

Jim.

Kevin posted this clip of him and PB.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuRwg...ature=youtu.be

[KPM]

Where did I say it was a good performance? Keep makin' sh!t up and I'ma slap you.

Here are your words, from just the first 8 pages of this thread:

It looked as if Kevin was trying to comply and get into some sort of rolling platform with Obassi, but Obassi wasn't really making that happen. That's why Kevin stopped and said it's not our chi-sau.

It's clear to anyone who knows anything that Kevin was obviously not trying to fight while Obassi was

Obasi was way off balance and exposed while Kevin was pretty controlled nonetheless

Kevin was pretty calm throughout and just trying to get into some sort of rolling platform with him as far as I could tell, but Obasi kept making it some sort of struggle, which is why it made it look like Kevin was chasing hands when he tried to set up properly. He was looking to get into chi-sau, not just fight. Obasi just wasn't cooperating. Eventually Kevin paused and said this isn't our chi-sau.

Kevin looked like he was just trying to roll and Obasi didn't know how. But despite that and the obvious imposing size and power Obasi was shoving uncontrollably at him, nothing really got through on Kevin and he wasn't completely manhandled or even put into a terribly vulnerable position. His footwork could have been better and he could have started striking and taking a more advantageous position rather than looking to connect and roll- that is, actually go into gwo-sau- but overall the floor was not wiped with him, by far. We didn't really get to see much from Kevin here as far as method, so there's not much to criticize.

While not exactly paying compliments to Kevin, it certainly at least comes across as an endorsement to me. So you can go slap yourself!