Obasse & Kevin Gledhill chi sau

[chaotic2k]

Not necessarily "fight", but free spar. That is the only way for two different lineages to compare themselves.



I don't know about that. Haven't seen Kevin fight, but Obasi doesn't impress me in the least.



A bad name. Posts a terribly lousy video of himself setting someone up in what he calls a "Chi Sao Challenge Match" where he almost falls on his face. He should use this clip for his next MMA tryout and see if they don't laugh him out of the building like the last time.

Obasi is better rounded than most you guys. Doesnt mean hes the dogs bollocks but he can cauae problems.

Frees sparring or whatever sparring is just that. Too much is thought into it by you guys. This is why you dont move forward. To scared of you system looking bad etc... Fighting is fighting, loads of factors involved not just whos system is better. Its who was better on day in many ways...

[Frost]

Not necessarily "fight", but free spar. That is the only way for two different lineages to compare themselves.



I don't know about that. Haven't seen Kevin fight, but Obasi doesn't impress me in the least.



A bad name. Posts a terribly lousy video of himself setting someone up in what he calls a "Chi Sao Challenge Match" where he almost falls on his face. He should use this clip for his next MMA tryout and see if they don't laugh him out of the building like the last time.

at least obassi has actually fought MMA and won a few full contact matches, until you have posted clips of yourself (or heck anyone from your lineage) doing the same your judgement of his skills is worthless and meaningless.
im going to actually apologise to Kevin now for jumping all over the.clip.like I did
As much as I want to make fun of Kevin his response on this thread was very good and should have ended the discussion, instead 3 pages later we have people still mocking him and people defending him because he is wsl lineage and an attack on him is an attack on them. Let it go it was a bad clip of a bad drill with two guys trying to do completely different things.

[BPWT.]

I think if he started doing that it would have set Obasi off even further which would not have been good. There were so many times where Kevin could have capitalized on Obasi's loss of balance and overextension, or he could have just punched him straight in the face as open as he left himself.

In Gor Sau things happen fast. If you have LLHS, LSJC shouldn't Kevin be exploiting the opening automatically? I'm sorry, but for me 90% of what Kevin proclaims is the PBVT system was not seen this clip. He did some things that deserve praise, but still... it was hardly the superior VT method that he, Graham, etc, have been talking about for years and years and years and years.

As much as I want to make fun of Kevin his response on this thread was very good and should have ended the discussion, instead 3 pages later we have people still mocking him and people defending him because he is wsl lineage and am attack on him is an attack on them. Let it go it was a bad clip of a bad drill with twp guys trying to do completely different things.

Sure, probably the thread should simmer down. But seriously, after so many discussions/arguments/"whatever's" over how superior the PBVT method is, and how everyone else in the Wing Chun world has it wrong and has "misunderstood the system"... you can't be surprised that we have six pages of comments from some people who were a little surprised to see what was in (and what was not in) this exchange. The video also received a few 'surprised' comments from a German forum too. (though no direct response from PB himself, unfortunately, though he frequents that forum)

[slick69]

Sure, probably the thread should simmer down. But seriously, after so many discussions/arguments/"whatever's" over how superior the PBVT method is, and how everyone else in the Wing Chun world has it wrong and has "misunderstood the system"... you can't be surprised that we have six pages of comments from some people who were a little surprised to see what was in (and what was not in) this exchange. The video also received a few 'surprised' comments from a German forum too. (though no direct response from PB himself, unfortunately, though he frequents that forum)

PBVT guys for years have been basking all outside there linage especially Kevin, to the point it's made this forum hard to discuss any ideas. I really hope this clip will now create an open minded forum and not talk with no substance.

[LFJ]

Obasi is better rounded than most you guys. Doesnt mean hes the dogs bollocks but he can cauae problems.

Frees sparring or whatever sparring is just that. Too much is thought into it by you guys. This is why you dont move forward. To scared of you system looking bad etc... Fighting is fighting, loads of factors involved not just whos system is better. Its who was better on day in many ways...

Slow down. Whatchu mean "you guys"? Wing Chun is not the only system I train and is actually the most recent I've studied. I don't know Kevin and don't share his lineage. I have no reason to defend him. I'm just giving my opinion.

Obasi is better rounded than most you guys.

He fell on his ass just trying to do a round kick on a pad...

[KPM]

Disagree with some of your points. I can see PBWSLVT in Kevin. Obasi looks very strong and i feel other Wing Chun guys i.e Yip Chun etc... Would not keep there structure since they dont understand there boxing forms to the level of WSL method. You can so that Kevin trains his Jon To Ma since he is getting thrown about as a unit.

This is the WSL way. You fight as a unit. Problem is there is not enough spring in the structure and this is why WSL guys get thrown around by really strong guys. Its reallt a universal issue with the WC structure but especially the WSL since they are best at applying it correctly.

Ok. Maybe I should have used a different example. If I had not known this was Kevin, I could have easily assumed he was from the Ho Kam Ming, Augustine Fong, or Robert Chu lineage. These guys DO NOT let themselves get thrown around and collapsed and keep structure just as well as Kevin did in this video. What I saw was nothing special. What I saw did not immediately say to me that this was PBVT or WSLVT. In fact, I would hazard to speculate that Obasi would NOT have done this to Alan Orr. ;-)

[KPM]

While not trying to do real damage, Obasi was obviously emotional and trying to prove something. Kevin was pretty calm throughout and just trying to get into some sort of rolling platform with him as far as I could tell, but Obasi kept making it some sort of struggle, which is why it made it look like Kevin was chasing hands when he tried to set up properly. He was looking to get into chi-sau, not just fight. Obasi just wasn't cooperating.
.

That's total BS and trying to apologize for Kevin's poor performance. As was already pointed out, where was Kevin's use of prime PBVT principles to defend himself? When he realized that Obasi wasn't going to roll with him nicely, why didn't we start to see the Bong Sau structure used as a barrier with angling to the side? Why did he insist on trying to roll when that obviously wasn't Obasi's game plan? He didn't have to turn it into a fight. But he certainly could have stepped out of the Luk Sau platform and into what we see so so often in PBVT clips. He could have defended himself much better with that continuous Bong/Lop and Punch sequence we see so often in the clips he posts. Where was his superior PBVT skills against a big strong guy with little technique that just wanted to rush in on him? That should be WCK 101.

[KPM]

I don't think Kevin wanted to go there, and it looks like to me that that is why all he did was defend. Of course the only response Kevin will give is a diplomatic one, but this is my suspicion.

Really? Kevin has never worried about being PC or diplomatic here in this forum in the past!

[LFJ]

why didn't we start to see the Bong Sau structure used as a barrier with angling to the side?

Why would you?

Why did he insist on trying to roll when that obviously wasn't Obasi's game plan? He didn't have to turn it into a fight. But he certainly could have stepped out of the Luk Sau platform and into what we see so so often in PBVT clips.

Based on what he said at the end, it seems the point of what they were supposed to be doing was exchanging in chi-sau. But anyway, with a stubborn and c0cky guy like Obasi being in the emotional state he was in, there's usually only one way to get them to acknowledge anything you do, and that is to actually knock them out. You may shut down their attacks and control them (actually Obasi didn't really get anything clean in this exchange), but if you don't actually clean their clock, their ego will tell them you haven't done anything. Yet another reason I don't chi-sau with people of other lineages and insist on sparring.

[KPM]

I don't know Kevin and don't share his lineage. I have no reason to defend him. I'm just giving my opinion.



...

Sure sounds like you're trying to defend him to me! And that's largely what has kept this thread going. In the past you have certainly gone to great efforts to sound like you are part of the PBVT camp and chime right in to support them in various discussions. So your comment above seems a bit out of place to me. Sorry, just my opinion.

[LFJ]

Really? Kevin has never worried about being PC or diplomatic here in this forum in the past!

Commenting on things where he's not involved. He didn't really add any background details on this exchange or tell us what was actually going on. Did you not see his only comment in this thread? I wonder why he'd knowingly accept a "Chi Sao Challenge Match" since he's always on about how chi-sau isn't fighting nor a competition. Just seems fishy, doesn't it?

[LFJ]

Sure sounds like you're trying to defend him to me! And that's largely what has kept this thread going. In the past you have certainly gone to great efforts to sound like you are part of the PBVT camp and chime right in to support them in various discussions. So your comment above seems a bit out of place to me. Sorry, just my opinion.

Never met PB either. I agree with a lot of what they say, sure, but you seem to have forgotten the LSJK thread? I was not quite on the same page with them. I just say what I see.

[KPM]

Why would you?



Based on what he said at the end, it seems the point of what they were supposed to be doing was exchanging in chi-sau. But anyway, with a stubborn and c0cky guy like Obasi being in the emotional state he was in, there's usually only one way to get them to acknowledge anything you do, and that is to actually knock them out. You may shut down their attacks and control them (actually Obasi didn't really get anything clean in this exchange), but if you don't actually clean their clock, their ego will tell them you haven't done anything. Yet another reason I don't chi-sau with people of other lineages and insist on sparring.

More BS. What I have seen in the PBVT clips that I liked and admired was how PB can use his Bong Sau as a barrier and consistently angle off to the side so that he is not dealing with the opponent's force straight on. Against someone trying to run you over, this is the ideal strategy that leaves him facing empty space. It doesn't necessarily incite him to a fight, and keeps you from getting backed up or run over. From what I've seen here, this seems to be one of the core strategies in PBVT and I didn't see Kevin do it once. No need to clean anyone's clock. Just get out of the way and neutralize his attack. WCK 101.

[KPM]

Commenting on things where he's not involved. He didn't really add any background details on this exchange or tell us what was actually going on. Did you not see his only comment in this thread? I wonder why he'd knowingly accept a "Chi Sao Challenge Match" since he's always on about how chi-sau isn't fighting nor a competition. Just seems fishy, doesn't it?

Yes, I agree with you completely. But to imply that Kevin is being nice because he doesn't want Obasi to look bad seems a bit of a stretch to me!!!!

[LFJ]

More BS. What I have seen in the PBVT clips that I liked and admired was how PB can use his Bong Sau as a barrier and consistently angle off to the side so that he is not dealing with the opponent's force straight on. Against someone trying to run you over, this is the ideal strategy that leaves him facing empty space. It doesn't necessarily incite him to a fight, and keeps you from getting backed up or run over. From what I've seen here, this seems to be one of the core strategies in PBVT and I didn't see Kevin do it once. No need to clean anyone's clock. Just get out of the way and neutralize his attack. WCK 101.

Generally, yes. But there are those stubborn, c0cky types that will not acknowledge that you've done anything to them if you don't actually hurt them. Obasi seems to me like the type you'd have to knock out, and he still might think he won then. He seems proud of his embarrassing performance here.