Latest WCI and WCK history

[Hendrik]

Hendrik is just defending himself against baseless attacks.....


***----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
True. I was never impressed with S&C in their video presentation. And if real S&C was a secret- it should be kept a secret.

IMO Hendrik in part brought it on himself with his earlier alliance with S&C to buttress his POV on wc history.And now he speaks approvingly of
a marketing video machine and a couple of his friends for "historical research".

When the brush is moved away and the constant and overdone repetition of his own view of the bows and flows and his preferred terms and labels... much of it is present in
good contemporary wing chun. He is trying to preserve YKWC but that battle is lost already- with other YK people mixing CLK and Hung ga in what they do
and Hendrik's limited amount of effective teaching and the compulsive volume ad absurdum of posting.

AFAIAC- Hendrik can have his own thread rather than cluttering multiple threads.

I am not attacking Hendrik but the content and repetitious volume of his postings.

Joy,

1. I give credit to all Wck lineages equally based on facts be it YKWC or any other lineages.

2. I am not trying to preserve YKWC but the content of YKWC has been preserve research ,and secure today in many location world wide by many wcners.

3. Verifiable data of 1850 have been sorted out .

4. DNA of 1850 has been identify and implemented by many wcners .

[LoneTiger108]

All this Drama is bad for Wing Chun and remember this; All this is about nothing!

Seems to me that this is all about much more than nothing but generally I also see your view, and Hendriks, and Waynes.

Personally I have seen far too much infighting in our beloved Wing Chun family and this only adds to the fire that feeds all those that doubt, not only Wing Chun as an effective Martial Art, but each practitioner that is striving for their own perfection. As much as a I have respect for those that research and bring together the various histories and facts present in their own clans it's always worth remembering that this system we all practice is still relatively young compared to others and there are still those traces of our past within every move you do and every kuit you recite.

Just train and then train some more. Bring people together and share, and then we might all find more insight into each others ways.

[GlennR]

1. I give credit to all Wck lineages equally based on facts be it YKWC or any other lineages.

No you dont. Remember your crticism of TST until you realised someone on the forum was from his lineage??
Apparently you think he doesnt know what he is doing, remember that?

2. I am not trying to preserve YKWC but the content of YKWC has been preserve research ,and secure today in many location world wide by many wcners.

Yes, in servers and internet chat groups across the globe!
How often do these guys fight?

3. Verifiable data of 1850 have been sorted out .

No, no it hasnt. Getting your attention seeking friend Sergio to put up a youtube clip doesmt make it so.
As ive asked before, show us your peer critiqued research and we will have a look at it, but there isnt any is there?

4. DNA of 1850 has been identify and implemented by many wcners .

And what has that gained them? Are they better fighters?

[JPinAZ]

Hi Guys,

I understand what you saying and even where Hendrik is coming from, but honestly, enough is enough. How many people from Yip Man's line goes on about their advanced version of SLT, because some lines have one. With this I'm not talking about William Cheung's version but an actual alternate version that contains turning and a small section similar to Chum Kiu, this was taught to some early Foshan students. I've seen it, I've even "practiced" it but will not make claims that it is "original" WC from 1850. I understand what Hendrik is trying to bring across, but if you look closely the agenda is still there. All this DNA and engine talk is just semantics IMO. I can appreciate variety and nuance the same as anyone else, but to hop up on the soap box and reiterate the same dribble over and over is getting redundant. I will give Hendrik credit for his research he does a good job at uncovering WC's past but it all seems to lead into the DNA & engine thing and how a 150-200 years ago it was completely different and how so much has been lost. Nothing has been lost, people just want to believe that they have in their possession something that no one else has. Wing Chun for what it is, is complete and lacks nothing that isn't necessary. I'm pretty sure as an art that visually it hasn't changed much from it's conception. It's only visually different within the lines that have other influences whether they admit it or not ex: Pao Fa Lien, Chan Family, Tang Family, Cho Family, etc....See where I'm coming from, look into it for yourselves only the lineages with obvious other art influences make unverified claims and promote an alternate spin on the history to justify their innovations. Nothing wrong with mixing it up, that's how things evolve after all, just admit to it. Doesn't matter if it happened yesterday or 200 years ago. Even Hendrik admitted that someone in Cho family altered SLT with Choy Lay Fut, could of happened 175 years ago and for all I know that's when the Kuen Kuit was written. Whose to say that their Kuen Kuit wasn't codified after the alterations were made and that's why they have a description for all the moves in SLT. Kuen Kuit proves absolutely nothing other than someone took the time to write their understanding of the art down, it is not a certificate of authenticity by any means.

I can appreciate the relevance of how the formal salutation of Cho family coincides with Hung Mun practices and how that fits in with the performance of the opera. That is interesting, irrelevant but interesting none-the-less. I get it that it's a window to the past and what the art may or may not have looked like back then. But that is still only one version, it's a linear view. There is no absolute proof that Wing Chun was one long form, 3 forms or simply San Sik in it's originality. Truth is all 3 methods were probably used interchangeably and at roughly the same time. My argument from the very beginning is.........With so many branches how could such as huge and integral part of the art be completely forgotten and overwritten as Hendrik, Sergio and others suggest with this "DNA & Engine" theory? It's bullsh!t, nothing more than a shameless ruse of self promotion and anyone who is stupid enough to blindly believe in it obviously hasn't learned any Wing Chun that is worth a d@mn. I don't care what Great Grand Poo Pah of WC you learned from, if you believe this "theory" you didn't learn sh!t.

Because it needs repeating.

[GlennR]

Because it needs repeating.

Yep, and ill repeat it again JP

[KPM]

I think everyone is tired of reading this nonsense and there is no question in my mind that it has gone on for too long. All this Drama is bad for Wing Chun and remember this; All this is about nothing! Hendrik never broke his oath to S&C by showing or giving anyone their precious notebook.

True on all counts! I don't know about anyone else, but all this smear campaign has done for me is make me think less of Sifu Wayne Yung and SCWCK!

[FongSung]

But by evidence, yik kam has the fullest internal elements but Law man Kung has more comprehensive woodern dummy training which yik kam lineage doesn't have.
Because it is an evolution and era dependent. Woodern dummy training evolve and grow after 1850. And those after 1850 doesn't practice internal six core elements and the seven bows as the core 1850. So that is reality.

If yik kam decendent shows a comprehensive woodern dummy set, you know that has to come from law lineage .

Ban Chung Wing Chun of the Cho Family has a 108 Muk Yan Jong Set of 13 Sections complete with Kuit.

[Cho Gar]

Ban Chung Wing Chun of the Cho Family has a 108 Muk Yan Jong Set of 13 Sections complete with Kuit.

Yup, just been training it tonight.

[deejaye72]

Yep, and ill repeat it again JP

Me too
His karma because of his ego, brought this on to him

[VT Andy]

IMO Hendrik in part brought it on himself with his earlier alliance with S&C to buttress his POV on wc history.And now he speaks approvingly of
a marketing video machine and a couple of his friends for "historical research".

When the brush is moved away and the constant and overdone repetition of his own view of the bows and flows and his preferred terms and labels... much of it is present in
good contemporary wing chun. He is trying to preserve YKWC but that battle is lost already- with other YK people mixing CLK and Hung ga in what they do
and Hendrik's limited amount of effective teaching and the compulsive volume ad absurdum of posting.

AFAIAC- Hendrik can have his own thread rather than cluttering multiple threads.

I am not attacking Hendrik but the content and repetitious volume of his postings.

Mostly I agree with you. I think for SCWCM the damage only happen "in-door" level not "in-room" level. My father taught me in kung fu culture we must respect what is earn and understand the way of the old generation. I think SCWCM Sifu Yung is taken advantage of by Robert and hendrik and those two connect with Youtube celebrity Sergio as attempt to inflate their status and ego. I was taught me long time ago that if I do not understand the culture I become very irresponsible and incapable to handle kung fu knowledge - not even can teach right. I see lots in this generation cannot demonstrate responsible ethic with knowledge just stealing from the Sifu and bully him while betray lineage ancestors: 欺師滅祖

no understanding = no value = degrade knowledge

Originally Posted by Daniel Fong
R should be Robert Chu definitely. Robert Chu had mentioned that Sifu Wayne Yung and Hendrik Santo are both his SiHings in SCWC and YKWC respectively in his Facebook postings. Also, Hendrik openly requested to baisee to Sifu Wayne Yung's sifu in the facebook, and was accepted until the baisee ceremony completed. However, later on, Hendrik posted public announcements in Facebook and KFO here, that no more relationship dealing with SCWC. Today, what he does with others dealing with the SCWC document betraying SCWC. Too bad... Are they both Qishimiezu (欺師滅祖) ?

Such actions should be condemn by community. Quishimeizu is character sickness, like having rats/mice in cafeteria. Anyone can see all these decades Hendrik and Robert take what they can and brag about what they have then burn the bridge - seem to be with such emotional indignation and disgust - when caught red handed. Like Hillary said about Benghazi “What difference at this point does it make?” is a bad attitude.

Some call them hero others call them mouse in community. How is it they are to be respected when they don’t understand kung fu way they are not good example to follow about anything. Hard pill to swallow for victim who being taken advantage.

Is it confusing to anyone why Robert calls Hendrik his sihing when Robert never learn from Hendrik’s Sifu? How is that even make any sense? That is laughable misuse of kung fu culture. They don’t understand and is why they are irresponsible with genuine kung fu knowledge. Moy and Yip families know to deny these types. They demonstrate poor behavior to the community and show no loyalty to anyone but their self interest only.

[KPM]

Good post VT Andy.

Not really. Just more "Hendrik-bashing." The rest of the thread above should have made it clear than Sifu Yung wasn't completely innocent here. And for his followers to continue to beat a dead horse is not necessary.

[zuti car]

Not really. Just more "Hendrik-bashing." The rest of the thread above should have made it clear than Sifu Yung wasn't completely innocent here. And for his followers to continue to beat a dead horse is not necessary.

You are right, I don't see how Yung and his followers are any different from Hendrik , actually Hendrik has the right to believe , practice and write anything he wants and we saw he didn't do anything wrong to these people . On the other hand these people trying to put Hendrik down just because he said something they don't like . Well , if you don't want to hear something you don't like you shouldn't go public with your "secret , indoor " or whatever style

[KPM]

That's your opinion, can I have mine?

Of course! Want to hear another opinion of mine? Its also not necessary to encourage others to continue to beat a dead horse! Seems I remember someone saying something about people "spamming" the forums.

[Minghequan]

Well said David! agree 100%

[KPM]

Want my opinion? I will speak my mind as I see fit. It's my constitutional right and I'll be d@mned if I'll let anyone subjugate that right because they may find my view insulting or controversial. It's a public forum. I take a lot of sh!t from people around here and do my best to maintain composure and diplomacy. I'll agree at times I may stress my point of view well beyond it's means but I'm certainly not the only one guilty of that am I? I simply stated Good Post, I am allowed to agree with anyone whom so ever I choose, you certainly do. Are we clear? Can we move past this nonsense or do you wish to cross examine and continue arguing about freedom of speech?

There's that "heightened emotional state" again Dave! Seems I also had a "constitutional right" to speak my mind as I saw fit on the "best Wing Chun KO" thread when you jumped all over me. I'm just pointing out to you that what I was doing is not much different from what you have been doing lately. But you've never apologized for coming down on me and calling me out for it. And I hate double standards.