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Thread: Question for you WC guys?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    And how often does one get ambushed on the street? If one doesn't focus on sparring because they train for "the streets", then they are basically never fight-training. If one doesn't spar, I don't know what they are doing in martial arts.
    I see a difference between the competitive sparring tc1o1 is talking about and drilling things realistically. The Inosanto Academy guys call it "progressive sparring." Its more like our "Gor Sao" training, but not necessarily against an opponent that is also doing Wing Chun. You can "pressure test" certain things without just jumping in the ring and sparring. In a competitive sparring situation there may never be an opportunity to apply certain things from Wing Chun, or the student may just not THINK to apply them! So they never really get trained. That's why guys that just spar all the time end up looking like some form of kickboxing. Its because this kind of sparring doesn't necessarily bring out good Wing Chun technique.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    Its because this kind of sparring doesn't necessarily bring out good Wing Chun technique.
    What is good Wing Chun technique?

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    What is good Wing Chun technique?
    That would probably vary depending upon the source! But it should at least be recognizable as Wing Chun!

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    When you say "trade punches" it paints the picture of standing at range in equal position and throwing punches back and forth. That is not the strategy of Wing Chun. Of course, that is not to say fighting has to look like chi-sau. I would say Alan Orr, you guys mentioned, is a good example of someone who understands that Wing Chun is about overall body behavior rather than applying shapes that look like something. That body behavior is not one of "trading punches" though, but nor is it trying to look like something- whatever idea someone has of what Wing Chun fighting should look like.
    Do you think boxers WANT to trade punches? Of course not. They would love it if they could simply hit the other guy and not have him hit us. But that is not the reality of fighting. Often in fighting it is not a matter of what we WANT to do but what we NEED to do to survive. When you put in the time sparring and if you train with a fight trainers you will learn that you often NEED to trade punches, that is the best thing you can do in the situation regardless of what you WANT to do and regardless of what you think your strategy should be.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by tc101 View Post
    Do you think boxers WANT to trade punches? Of course not. .
    Oh, so that's why they typically stand right in front of each other? That's why their primary defense is to cover up rather than control an arm? That's why they don't do takedowns, sweeps, throws, etc? Dude, boxing is all about trading punches! Maybe someone like a Muhammed Ali can dance around and avoid taking shots as much as possible, but there is no getting around the fact that boxing is all about trading punches!

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by tc101 View Post
    Often in fighting it is not a matter of what we WANT to do but what we NEED to do to survive. When you put in the time sparring and if you train with a fight trainers you will learn that you often NEED to trade punches, that is the best thing you can do in the situation regardless of what you WANT to do and regardless of what you think your strategy should be.
    If you degenerate so badly that you can only stand and swing, you need to take a step back from sparring and increase the pressure slowly since it's obviously too much for you at that point.

  7. #22
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    I can see what he’s talking about with the pak far as being in the right position for usage and while keepping from being hit. But, if one uses chum with their pak da, he/she could bridge walk his opponent’s free hand while keeping him/her (opponent) in a defensive set (with good timing) , and literally turning your opponent’s defensive limb into a hot wheel track, which will lead your strike or attack right to his skull when using that approach.


    Take care,

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    Oh, so that's why they typically stand right in front of each other? That's why their primary defense is to cover up rather than control an arm? That's why they don't do takedowns, sweeps, throws, etc? Dude, boxing is all about trading punches! Maybe someone like a Muhammed Ali can dance around and avoid taking shots as much as possible, but there is no getting around the fact that boxing is all about trading punches!
    nope boxing is about trying to knock the other guy out but..
    maybe because through countless hours of actual sparring and fighting they have realised its near impossible to flank an opponent who actually moves, that reaching for an arm and trying to control it gets you knocked out...and that gasp sweeps and throws aren't allowed in boxing...and covering up is the basic boxing defence, slipping parrying, bobbing are also used its just that when an opponent is actually trying to take your head off sometimes covering is a good idea, hence mma and Thai boxers also use it...

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    Dude, boxing is all about trading punches! Maybe someone like a Muhammed Ali can dance around and avoid taking shots as much as possible, but there is no getting around the fact that boxing is all about trading punches!
    True, because knock outs should always come naturally (for a pro), just like wing chun nothing is forced, because that could be very dangerous when dealing with a smart fighter.
    Knock outs are done and based mostly on the progression of the fight, and from a pro point of view; Why rush it? And, "a good fighter can win a fight with just a Jab".


    Take care,

  10. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    Oh, so that's why they typically stand right in front of each other? That's why their primary defense is to cover up rather than control an arm? That's why they don't do takedowns, sweeps, throws, etc? Dude, boxing is all about trading punches! Maybe someone like a Muhammed Ali can dance around and avoid taking shots as much as possible, but there is no getting around the fact that boxing is all about trading punches!
    Try to grasp this point they don't try to stand in front of each other but in fighting that is what is going to happen. Your opponent will actively try to prevent you from flanking him and will immediately regain facing should you manage to. If I put you in the ring you would see this for yourself.

    Trading punches is not what boxing is all about. But trading punches is inevitable for ANYONE who spar or fights you see in in Muay Thai, kick boxing, mma and so forth. This is what I am trying to explain that the people who do not spar or fight think things based on no real experience.

    You seriously think you will control someone's arm who is fighting you? Why don't you go try to do just that and have your eyes opened.

  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    If you degenerate so badly that you can only stand and swing, you need to take a step back from sparring and increase the pressure slowly since it's obviously too much for you at that point.
    Trading punches is not standing there and swinging. I am not talking about being outclassed either. What I am describing is what happens in sparring and fighting. Those who are doing it understand.

    What do you do when you just can't keep him off you and you are eating punches? You fight back. At the very least you are hitting him while you eat punches! The closer he gets the harder you hit. You make him respect you. If he has no respect for your ability to hurt him he will be all over you. This is the reality of sparring or fighting. Also if you cannot trade punches THAT means you are probably fighting above your level.

  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    That would probably vary depending upon the source! But it should at least be recognizable as Wing Chun!
    Why do you not SHOW us what wing chun fighting looks like?

    You see I am not trying to be funny but trying to show that the very question of what should it look like announces the person asking is not sparring or fighting. If a person is sparring or fighting it looks like what they are doing.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by tc101 View Post
    You see I am not trying to be funny but trying to show that the very question of what should it look like announces the person asking is not sparring or fighting. If a person is sparring or fighting it looks like what they are doing.
    Same mantra I see! See post #15!

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by tc101 View Post
    Trading punches is not standing there and swinging. I am not talking about being outclassed either. What I am describing is what happens in sparring and fighting. Those who are doing it understand.

    .
    Looks like he's got you pegged as a "non-fighter" too LFJ! We need to just start calling tc101 "Terrence", since he doesn't use a real name.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by tc101 View Post
    Trading punches is not standing there and swinging. I am not talking about being outclassed either. What I am describing is what happens in sparring and fighting. Those who are doing it understand.
    KPM first used the term "trading blows" in this thread. What he was talking about was what the guy was doing in the original video. He said "standing directly in front of an opponent and trading blows is a mistake."

    You just grabbed the last part, "trading blows is a mistake", ignored the first part and changed the definition without telling anyone so that you can say he and everyone else doesn't spar or fight or train realistically and would understand you if they did.

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