Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 31 to 41 of 41

Thread: Question for you WC guys?

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    KPM first used the term "trading blows" in this thread. What he was talking about was what the guy was doing in the original video. He said "standing directly in front of an opponent and trading blows is a mistake."

    You just grabbed the last part, "trading blows is a mistake", ignored the first part and changed the definition without telling anyone so that you can say he and everyone else doesn't spar or fight or train realistically and would understand you if they did.
    I thought you weren't one of the eye rollers.

    When you spar or fight you WILL for the very most part find yourself in front of your opponent. Do you think people will just let you flank them? That is where the fight will happen for the most part.

    You guys are not getting it. When you spar or fight you will very very very often have to deal with not what you want but what you don't want. Your opponent is actively trying to not let you do what you want and impose what he wants. Some people seem to think that just because they want to do something or think it a great idea things will go that way. If a person is really sparring he will see that for the most part he will be in front of his opponent, that he will need to trade punches, that he won't be controlling their cog or arm, and so forth.

    Let me ask you a question. What is the single most important skill or ability in offense? What is the single most important skill or ability in defense? I will give you a clue. It is the same thing.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Rockville, MD
    Posts
    2,662
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    KPM first used the term "trading blows" in this thread. What he was talking about was what the guy was doing in the original video. He said "standing directly in front of an opponent and trading blows is a mistake."

    You just grabbed the last part, "trading blows is a mistake", ignored the first part and changed the definition without telling anyone so that you can say he and everyone else doesn't spar or fight or train realistically and would understand you if they did.
    Nailed it!!!!

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Rockville, MD
    Posts
    2,662
    Quote Originally Posted by tc101 View Post
    You guys are not getting it. When you spar or fight you will very very very often have to deal with not what you want but what you don't want.
    .
    Has anyone, ANYONE here said differently???? No, I think you are the one that isn't "getting it."

    I mentioned a street thug possibly having a knife....but I think you just glossed by that one. That is certainly something you DON'T want to deal with...but just might have to! So no, its you with your competitive sparring mentality that just doesn't "get it." But just keep on repeating your mantra Terrence.
    Last edited by KPM; 03-05-2014 at 04:50 AM.

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    Looks like he's got you pegged as a "non-fighter" too LFJ! We need to just start calling tc101 "Terrence", since he doesn't use a real name.
    What do you mean use a real name KPM? Like you I use my initials and have told people my name.

    What I hear are people who are really NOT doing what they are talking about trying to argue with me about how the things they think will work in fighting or sparring really will. You think you will be able to control someone's cog who is fighting with you or control their arm or take their flank or not trade punches or whatever. I am trying to tell you as someone who has put in the time sparring who has been around many many many others who have put in even more time and who have been around very good fight trainers that things are not how you think they are. I can tell you but of course you will not believe me. You will not believe me because you have not experienced it for yourself.

    Consider something as most basic as the ability to land solid shots. How do you think a person develops that skill or ability? In sparring. That is the only place you can develop that ability. You can't just do it because you want to or develop it in unrealistic drills or have the inborn ability. It is a very difficult thing to develop. You are trying to SOLIDLY hit a very fast moving target that is trying to not let you hit him and who is trying to actively hit you with solid shots. You develop and continue to develop that ability through practicing trying to do it which is sparring. This ability is the principal skill and basis of your overall ability to fight. Without that nothing else will work in a striking art.

    Anything else you do in sparring or fighting will be subject to what you are doing to land solid shots, how you are moving to land solid shots, and so forth to accomplish landing solid shots. That skill or ability is the horse and everything else is the cart.

    You may say this is all very well but what has that got to do with the topic at hand? Well a person who has not developed that skill for himself and that skill is developed only through a great deal of sparring cannot tell anybody how to do it or what they should do to do it or whatever. They will just be talking out their rear end because they do not know. They do not know the real problems the real solutions and so forth since they have not gone through the process of developing the skill.

    If a person has not developed this most basic skill which is the basis for everything else,how can they know how to put the rest of it together?

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    Has anyone, ANYONE here said differently???? No, I think you are the one that isn't "getting it."

    I mentioned a street thug possibly having a knife....but I think you just glossed by that one. That is certainly something you DON'T want to deal with...but just might have to! So no, its you with your competitive sparring mentality that just doesn't "get it." But just keep on repeating your mantra Terrence.
    As you no doubt recall I work as a LEO on the streets so I think I do have a greater appreciation for that than you.

    What I am talking about here is the skill building process. Sparring is where you develop your fighting skills. It is where you put things together, yes yes yes I know the street is not the gym or ring. I know that better than you because I am out there. I am saying that the skills you develop in the gym are the skills you will use on the street. If you want to solidly hit some opponent on the street where do you think you will have developed that skill or ability?

    What do you think you will do if you face a street thug with a knife? You will use what fighting skills you have to try and prevail.

    If you want to be able to solidly strike a street thug with a knife where do you think you develop that ability?
    Last edited by tc101; 03-05-2014 at 05:31 AM.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Rockville, MD
    Posts
    2,662
    What do you mean use a real name KPM? Like you I use my initials and have told people my name.

    You're not very observant. My full name is at the bottom of every post I write.

    You think you will be able to control someone's cog who is fighting with you or control their arm or take their flank or not trade punches or whatever. I am trying to tell you as someone who has put in the time sparring who has been around many many many others who have put in even more time and who have been around very good fight trainers that things are not how you think they are. I can tell you but of course you will not believe me. You will not believe me because you have not experienced it for yourself.

    You are right. I don't think you know what you are talking about. I have provided several valid examples of controlling or affecting an opponent's COG. You think someone can't "take the flank" when fighting? You think someone isn't able to avoid standing toe to toe and "trading punches" in a fight? IMHO, your simple comment above just lost you any credibility you may have had. I will ask again....for what...the third or fourth time?....why do you even bother with Wing Chun? Why aren't you just doing MMA? You say you are speaking from lofty experience which makes you an expert. Well, I think your experience must suck. Maybe you've only trained with scrubs. Because what you say above just doesn't make sense. And it doesn't match my experience training REAL Wing Chun, and escrima, and silat.


    only through a great deal of sparring cannot tell anybody how to do it or what they should do to do it or whatever. They will just be talking out their rear end because they do not know.

    There's the mantra again! Thanks Terrence!

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Rockville, MD
    Posts
    2,662
    As you no doubt recall I work as a LEO on the streets so I think I do have a greater appreciation for that than you.

    Then why in the world are you being so narrow-minded on this whole topic! You above all others should know that what works in the gym doesn't necessarily work in the street! How many police tactics involve gaining control of an assailant's arm? How in the heck do you cuff them otherwise??? Do police tactics teach you to stand right in front of someone and trade blows rather than angle away, flank them, or otherwise gain the advantage?

    What I am talking about here is the skill building process. Sparring is where you develop your fighting skills.

    No. Competitive sparring is where you develop the ability to spar competitively. It is not going to develop some of the finer points of Wing Chun that simply do not show up in a friendly sparring match with your buddy. Its that simple. But I'm sure you also glossed over my mention of progressive sparring drills.

    yes yes yes I know the street is not the gym or ring. I know that better than you because I am out there.

    Sure can't tell that from what you've been posting!!!!!!!


    What do you think you will do if you face a street thug with a knife? You will use what fighting skills you have to try and prevail.

    So you will stand right and front of him and trade blows? You won't try to gain control of his knife hand? You won't try to side-step or angle away or flank him to avoid the knife? You're going to do the same things you typically do during a friendly sparring match with your buddies? Good luck with that!!

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    ᏌᏂᎭᎢ, ᏥᎾ
    Posts
    3,257
    Quote Originally Posted by tc101 View Post
    I thought you weren't one of the eye rollers.
    I'm usually not until someone very obviously isn't trying hard to understand what people are saying, or purposefully changes definitions in order to sound more street...

    When you spar or fight you WILL for the very most part find yourself in front of your opponent. Do you think people will just let you flank them? That is where the fight will happen for the most part.
    I think you should rewind. Go back to the original video, to the specific timestamp and watch what the guy was doing. This is what KPM was referring to when he said standing in front of your opponent trading blows is a mistake. Are you saying planting your feet in front of your opponent and trying to block and throw back from that spot is going to happen to us whether we like it or not? If so, like I said before, I think you should take a step back from free sparring and dial up the pressure slowly since you're in over your head at that point. If not, then whatever you're saying is just another situation altogether and has nothing to do with what KPM said is a mistake.

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    As you no doubt recall I work as a LEO on the streets so I think I do have a greater appreciation for that than you.

    Then why in the world are you being so narrow-minded on this whole topic! You above all others should know that what works in the gym doesn't necessarily work in the street! How many police tactics involve gaining control of an assailant's arm? How in the heck do you cuff them otherwise??? Do police tactics teach you to stand right in front of someone and trade blows rather than angle away, flank them, or otherwise gain the advantage?
    Here is what I am talking about what makes you think you will be able to do these things?

    People are not born with realistic ideas of what really works in fighting and most people do not have enough experience to be able to evaluate what works or doesn't or whatever. Because of TV movies stories and so forth most people have very very unrealistic ideas of fighting. Unrealistic practices and training while necessary only reinforces unrealistic ideas. To put it another way unrealistic practices give us unrealistic ideas of fighting. Only realistic training which involves sparring gives us realistic ideas.

    How do LEOs gain control of an arrestees arm? Typically they either acquiesce or are forcibly taken down. You can't do it standing. Even once they are down if they continue to struggle it can be impossible without aid like another officer or a taser. You can have your inexperienced ideas of how you think it should work but they are not based in reality of lots of experience really doing it.

    The what works in the gym doesn't necessarily work on the street is misleading. Skills are practiced and developed in the gym. Where else will you develop them. Those skills are adaptable. If you can't do it in the gym against someone fighting you what makes you think you will be able to do it on the street?

    What I am talking about here is the skill building process. Sparring is where you develop your fighting skills.

    No. Competitive sparring is where you develop the ability to spar competitively. It is not going to develop some of the finer points of Wing Chun that simply do not show up in a friendly sparring match with your buddy. Its that simple. But I'm sure you also glossed over my mention of progressive sparring drills.
    Yes sparring does develop your ability to spar you are right. What are you doing when you spar? You are using your art against someone trying to fight you back. You are developing your ability to use your art against someone fighting you or to put it another way develop your fighting skills.

    yes yes yes I know the street is not the gym or ring. I know that better than you because I am out there.

    Sure can't tell that from what you've been posting!!!!!!!
    No No no it is just another example of having ideas not based in reality. You are not out on the streets really doing these things but you think you know what it is like and what will work. This is the attitude I am talking about. I am saying if you do not really do it then your ideas will be unrealistic and not based in reality. This is true of sparring or street.

    What do you think you will do if you face a street thug with a knife? You will use what fighting skills you have to try and prevail.

    So you will stand right and front of him and trade blows? You won't try to gain control of his knife hand? You won't try to side-step or angle away or flank him to avoid the knife? You're going to do the same things you typically do during a friendly sparring match with your buddies? Good luck with that!!
    The sparring I am talking about is not an occassional friendly sparring match with your buddy but a progressive process that takes years that is very intense that develops your fighting skills, it is the process fighters go through.

    What I do suggest is not listening to people who can't do it and aren't doing it tell you how to do it.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    ᏌᏂᎭᎢ, ᏥᎾ
    Posts
    3,257
    Quote Originally Posted by tc101 View Post
    How do LEOs gain control of an arrestees arm? Typically they either acquiesce or are forcibly taken down. You can't do it standing. Even once they are down if they continue to struggle it can be impossible without aid like another officer or a taser.
    Hence the focus on the punch in VT. The number one criticism we get from other WC systems is that we lack a bunch of different techniques and are therefore comparatively "incomplete". But then people who switch systems often do so after realizing the superfluous stuff only works in class with their likeminded training partners. VT is simple for practical reasons.

  11. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    Hence the focus on the punch in VT. The number one criticism we get from other WC systems is that we lack a bunch of different techniques and are therefore comparatively "incomplete". But then people who switch systems often do so after realizing the superfluous stuff only works in class with their likeminded training partners. VT is simple for practical reasons.
    I agree with you about the simplicity of wing chun. That is what attracted me to it.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •