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Can anyone tell me the exact definition of Shaolin Bei Yuan 少林寺北院?
Is this an area inside the temple, a division of the monks in the temple or does it refer to a minor offshoot temple associated with Shaolin?
This would be in the Ming dynasty if that helps.
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The pinyin for characters you supplied would be. Shaolin Si Bei Yuan
少林寺 refers to Shaolin Temple (Shaolin Si); 北院 northern school (most likely refers to northern school of Chan but could be referring to northern Shaolin martial arts).
r.
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www.shaolinwushu.com
Originally Posted by Tea Serpent
Last edited by r.(shaolin); 03-03-2014 at 01:49 PM.
羅王宗
Shaolin ChanSi, Shaolin Zen Temple was split into 4 abbeys. NanYuan, XiYuan, DongYuan, BeiYuan.
That is Southern abbey, western abbey, eastern abbey, northern abbey. (also sometimes referred to as courtyards).
These are not separate temples but all within the Shaolin area.
Shaolin used to own a large area of land all around YuZhai Mountain (the jade fortress, the old name for Shaoshi mountain).
They had different areas. The NanYuan and XiYuan are the ones famous for their martial arts. Even today traditional schools are polarised into these two sects, the Nanyuan pai and the Xiyuan pai. Modern schools and the temple itself no longer make the distinction and practice whatever they have left.
As to the Eastern and Northern abbeys (to which you refer), I confess I do not know their pursuit. I assumed their practice was Meditation and Scholarship. If it was Martial Arts then I do not think any survive.
This is conjecture; The idea I get is that the area being large had many outbuildings, Northern abbey would be one of them, perhaps with its own facilities, but still within walking distance of the main temple. I would imagine it housed a division of monks with a particular function different to those of the other abbeys.
If I may ask what reference is there to it?
Last edited by RenDaHai; 03-03-2014 at 04:38 PM.
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I was reading about a school of martial arts that originated there during the Ming dynasty.
It's kind of a small obscure style found only in a couple places (mainly Cangzhou).
I'll post some video, taken during the national survey in the 80's, in a couple days.
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The character 'yuan' 院 could refer to 'school' or 'public institution' but 北宗 could more likely be used to refer to Chan sects, North (Buddhism); Taoist sects, North (Taoism) 佛教禪宗派別 北宗 (佛教) 道教派別，北宗 (道教).
I'm not sure what you mean by 'northern abbey' etc. 僧院 i.e 'abbey is just another word of the Buddhist monastery and within Buddhist monasteries the buildings are usually referred to as 堂. I understand that outside the Shaolin temple to the northwest there are only two monasteries, the Ancestor's Monastery and the Second Ancestor's Monastery, possibly you can explain further about what you are referring to by 'abbeys'.
cheers,
r.
.....................
www.shaolinwushu.com
Last edited by r.(shaolin); 03-06-2014 at 11:33 PM.
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Yeah. The Nanyuan, for example, was a place called 永化堂 Yonghuatang. These are its "ruins"...
羅王宗
Sure.
NanYuan, XiYuan, BeiYuan and DongYuan are often referred to in Shaolin lore as 4 sections of the Shaolin temple. 僧院 SengYuan as you rightly say is abbey. But it would be kind of strange to say 'NanSengYuan' , uncomfortable even, so it is shortened to Nanyuan. Translating it as courtyard makes no sense as most people do because it wasn't a physical cloister. Rather it is a building that housed monks, possibly with its own dormitory and refectory etc, so abbey seems the best fit, indeed even the dictionary definition of SengYuan.
'Tang' would be a hall within the temple walls. These 4 abbeys would be subordinate to the Shaolin temple proper but not simply halls within it. Shaolin temple proper is not just a monastery but a famous temple. People could go there to worship. The 'abbeys' however are stricter communities of monks.
But how does it look? Think of a university campus... There are separate buildings for each department, some even with their own dining facilities etc. however all are within the university campus. You mention ChuZuAn, the ancestor monastery, This is also well within the bounds of what is Shaolin temples land. That extended a long way around the mountain. So I think the way to think of these places like Beiyuan is just like the ChuZuAn is, slightly separate but within Shaolin area. Or think of it like a private boarding school, students have their own 'house' with its own sleeping and dining facilities, but go over to the main 'school' every day for their lessons. The houses are mixed for lessons but compete in sports against each other etc.
Nowadays the Shaolin area has completely transformed. In the Ming dynasty Shaolin temple housed 1000 warrior monks and probably still more of other classification. These would not fit into what is now the Shaolin temple. There are many villages and hamlets also within the temple area, who farmed the land but paid dividends to the Shaolin temple, probably prayed there and were under their protection and practiced their Wushu. It was a very different landscape to what we see now with many many many more buildings and settlements.
The Nanyuan and Xiyuan forms and styles are different enough to assume the abbeys were not literally side by side, but similar enough to show they were a community.
Last edited by RenDaHai; 03-07-2014 at 06:16 AM.
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I seem to recall Abbot Xingzheng was of Beiyuan lineage and that they also had things they trained.
羅王宗
Its entirely possible.
I have never come across the BeiYuan or DongYuan sects in terms of martial arts. Doesn't mean they didn't have any, I hope they did, it would be fascinating. But there is so much of Nanyuan and XiYuan, and its always posed as an either or, I just assumed that they were the more scholarly and meditative parts of Shaolin.
I don't know how long or if these divisions survived into the 20th century in terms of the structure of the monastery.
Registered User
"Or think of it like a private boarding school, students have their own 'house' with its own sleeping and dining facilities, but go over to the main 'school' every day for their lessons. The houses are mixed for lessons but compete in sports against each other et"
LFJ
Interesting speculation, but speculation never-the-less.
There was a Buddhist temple originally called Fa Xing Si, one of the early Buddhist temples which was built during the Three Kingdoms (AD 220–280) , a period when emperors enthusiastically commissioned the building of temples, towers. This temple was built at the foot of Pan Shan 盤山 near Tianjin, just southeast of Beijing probably constructed during the Wei Dynasty. Fa Xing Si became associated with Shaolin, I suspect sometime after 1258 when Fuyu’s began his campaign to reclaim Buddhist monasteries and took charge of Fa Xing Si (see this article: http://ironbodhisattva.blogspot.ca/2011/08/fu-yu.html). I understand that Fa Xing Si was renamed 'Northern Shaolin Monastery 北少林寺', in 1315. Calling it a '北院' 'northern monastery', makes more sense than anything in proximity of Dong Fang.Yeah. The Nanyuan, for example, was a place called 永化堂 Yonghuatang. These are its "ruins"...
r.
www.shaolinwushu.com
Last edited by r.(shaolin); 03-10-2014 at 04:21 AM.
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I wrote a little about it in the video description. I'll put up a better description with names and dates of important people and whatnot in a day or two, I'm in the middle of moving now.
羅王宗
Great!
Thanks very much for the video TeaSerpent,
In my opinion its not a recent import from SongShan. Though the techniques are all readable that way, the form is more in the style ErLangQuan and many northern styles like it.
Though there was once (and possibly still) a BeiYuan sect in SongShan, I don't think this is a reference to it.
As r.Shaolin says above there is a 'northern shaolin' monastery, and certainly there are sects that refer to themselves as northern shaolin, which are not Song shan. I think this style would more likely belong more to that shaolin tradition.
Songshan itself would always refer to itself as central rather than northern, and its location is literally the centre of ancient China (ZhongYue) and a crossroads for going everywhere, as such has such a huge collection of cultural relics, tangible and otherwise.
Many of Chinas kung fu styles contain a spiritual element, often either Chan or Dao. Where this element is 'Chan' they often refer to themselves as 'Shaolin', since for 1000 years the legend has persisted that Song mountain is the birthplace of Chan. It is less common for the Daoist styles to call themselves Wudang, but they do often relate themselves to ZhangSanFeng.
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It would have been outside for at least 300 years.
I'll post up some more info when I get a chance.
羅王宗
300 years is certainly enough to transform to the local flavour. I once trained in a small village south of YuZhai (Shaoshi) mountain. They had separated from Shaolin for 360 years, but still retained the same form names, and XiaoHongQuan parts one and two, though outwardly very differently performed, were still largely the same sequence of techniques as they are in the temple today. Because the village was in the shadow of the mountain as it were, I suppose its techniques are kept constant by the influence of neighbouring villages, whom also practice Shaolin.
When removed far both in time and location, it gets harder to see the links. At this point it would be hard to tell. Would love to see more from their sect.
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It is conceivable for the term to be used that way by people up there, I suppose, but there isn't a Western Shaolin Monastery 西少林寺, for example. Yet in the Shaolin area there is what we call the Shaolin Xiyuan sect and its martial arts, as well as the Nanyuan which was previously the destroyed Yonghuatang, not any Southern Shaolin Monastery. So we know what Yuan is/was used to refer to in the area.
Although, my opinion on the video posted is the same as RenDaHai's. It's not what I would expect to see from a Shaolin Beiyuan if there was one. Not that I would know exactly what to expect, but it wouldn't be too far removed in flavor from the rest of what is found in the area, I'd imagine.
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