Wck DNA part 2

[Hendrik]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVDA...=youtube_gdata

[LFJ]

Yeah, so just more empty assertions. Waiting for him to get to the proof of the origins as you guys see it...

Every action in Wing Chun can be found in Northern Kung Fu as well. We could look at almost any style and see the same actions and then say hey that's where this must have come from! If that's all we're doing, I could make a very convincing case that daan-chi-sau came from Songshan Shaolin some 500 years ago because the same sequence of actions can be found in some of its forms... but that doesn't make it so.

And all the internal nonsense is useless for combat proficiency unless proven otherwise. Personally, granting your take on history, I'm glad whoever it was came along and got rid of all the superstitious garbage to focus on practical fighting theory and practice. You call it "watering down". I call it simplification and am thankful for it.

[Minghequan]

Sergio seems like a good orator. He seems to have some skill as well of that no doubt.

But what I want to see is the actual proof that this is historically fact and not some guys on Youtube (That Pillar of Great Truth) just saying so!

Until that happens all this will be is an opinion.

Hendrik is pushing this because Sergio is now a mouthpiece for his opinions ... and still we are waiting for the actual, 100% historically correct proof!

One more thing, If Wing Chun is indeed related or arising from White Crane then why not just do White Crane and Bam! You have your original "Wing Chun!"

[LFJ]

One more thing, If Wing Chun is indeed related or arising from White Crane then why not just do White Crane and Bam! You have your original "Wing Chun!"

Right. If you don't have all of White Crane or Emei whatever, then a lot is missing in your new style! You have to go back and learn the full mother systems. But then, where did these systems come from? Uh oh... We'd better spend all our time looking for historical documentation, reading, and talking about origins. No time for training!

I'm happy with a simple modern system, regardless of whatever someone thinks is "missing", because simple works.

[Minghequan]

Right. If you don't have all of White Crane or Emei whatever, then a lot is missing in your new style! You have to go back and learn the full mother systems. But then, where did these systems come from? Uh oh... We'd better spend all our time looking for historical documentation, reading, and talking about origins. No time for training!

I'm happy with a simple modern system, regardless of whatever someone thinks is "missing", because simple works.

Yeah so what Hendrik and now Sergio are basically saying to the world is that their Wing Chun is an incomplete system! A mix-mash of White Crane, Emei and Snake all rolled into one with Qigong added.

White Crane is a complete art in itself. Their is an abundance off traceable historical & technical information to outline not only its history but also practice, theories and concepts. So Hendrik / Sergio, if what your saying is true ... why not just do White Crane Gongfu ... the mother art? Problem solved!

All arts, I don't care how historically correct or proven (yes even White Crane) have evolved ... such is the nature of things, such is the nature of the true Martial Arts!

[tc101]

And all the internal nonsense is useless for combat proficiency unless proven otherwise. Personally, granting your take on history, I'm glad whoever it was came along and got rid of all the superstitious garbage to focus on practical fighting theory and practice. You call it "watering down". I call it simplification and am thankful for it.

One of the best observations I've read here.

[Hendrik]

Opinion:

White Crane is a complete art in itself. Their is an abundance off traceable historical & technical information to outline not only its history but also practice, theories and concepts. So Hendrik / Sergio, if what your saying is true ... why not just do White Crane Gongfu ... the mother art? Problem solved!


Facts:


Wck is a capturing center , inner gate play art or fast response and firing in the inner gate .
A variation of white crane center line principle.

The snake from emei technoligy is to develop the ability to support the inner gate play. Thus Wck inch or fast power is not the same with white crane. It is an emei technology based development .

[KPM]

Yeah so what Hendrik and now Sergio are basically saying to the world is that their Wing Chun is an incomplete system! A mix-mash of White Crane, Emei and Snake all rolled into one with Qigong added.

Emei is snake. And they aren't saying that Wing Chun is incomplete. And "mix-mash" is not accurate. Nothing comes from a vacuum. Wing Chun has the legend of Ng Mui creating the system after watching a fight between a Snake and a Crane. This is very likely a metaphor for someone combining knowledge from these two systems. So we go back and look at these systems to see what this knowledge might have been and if it adds up. And we find elements in Wing Chun that are very "Craney" and bear a strong resemblance to White Crane as well as elements that are very "Snakey" and bear a strong resemblance to Emei. Some very ingenious and clever person at some point combined these elements into a cohesive whole that became Wing Chun and found that they worked very well together. That's not a "mix-mash." Its more of a "functional integration." The sum of the parts is often different and greater than the parts alone.


White Crane is a complete art in itself. Their is an abundance off traceable historical & technical information to outline not only its history but also practice, theories and concepts. So Hendrik / Sergio, if what your saying is true ... why not just do White Crane Gongfu ... the mother art? Problem solved!

Why would they do that? They are not trying to recreate the ancestral arts. They are trying to maximize their Wing Chun. There is a possibility that the original creators of Wing Chun included more elements of White Crane or Emei that have since sort of "faded away." Whether that was a bad thing or a natural evolution remains to be seen.

All arts, I don't care how historically correct or proven (yes even White Crane) have evolved ... such is the nature of things, such is the nature of the true Martial Arts!

But if someone told you that they had evidence of an older version of White Crane that had some different elements that aren't seen today, wouldn't you be curious to see what they are?

[sihing]

Watched the video, twice Sergio mentions that Wing Chun is more than just about fighting, and with this discovery some if they choose to can add this to their training and it can help them in other ways besides fighting, so don't understand the comments about "internal nonsense" being useless for fighting when he says it twice in the video himself (thought he doesn't use the word nonsense), lol..

Any activity done with involvement can be made to by more helpful to you on a whole than just what it is there for in obvious ways, look deeper and one can find it. None of us here are pro/amateur fighters, so if that is true, then we must be doing this for other reasons besides fighting ability (why be so interested and train so much if your not fighting with it??), mostly cause we like the activity, it's of interest to us, fighting is the last reason why I train/teach VT...

J

[LFJ]

Watched the video, twice Sergio mentions that Wing Chun is more than just about fighting, and with this discovery some if they choose to can add this to their training and it can help them in other ways besides fighting, so don't understand the comments about "internal nonsense" being useless for fighting when he says it twice in the video himself (thought he doesn't use the word nonsense), lol..

Internal nonsense, "qi" and whatnot, is still nonsense, the mere existence of which has not even met its burden of proof- much less what it can be used for. Besides, these guys (Hendrik here) have been saying Wing Chun is incomplete and inferior without the qi nonsense. That's an assertion that needs to be demonstrated and is not freed from being commented upon.

None of us here are pro/amateur fighters, so if that is true, then we must be doing this for other reasons besides fighting ability (why be so interested and train so much if your not fighting with it??)

Sport fighting is not the only form of fighting that happens, you know?

[sihing]

Internal nonsense, "qi" and whatnot, is still nonsense, the mere existence of which has not even met its burden of proof- much less what it can be used for. Besides, these guys (Hendrik here) have been saying Wing Chun is incomplete and inferior without the qi nonsense. That's an assertion that needs to be demonstrated and is not freed from being commented upon.



Sport fighting is not the only form of fighting that happens, you know?

I think Hendrik explain in basic terms what Chi/Qi means, biochemical bioelectrical, are you denying that this exists in each of us? What you need to do is just open your mind, don't believe what anyone is saying, but don't disbelieve it due to a limited belief system or whatever it is that makes one blind to a possibility. I practice Yoga, there is a lot of talk and explanation of prana and things of this nature, but it is not in some esoteric way, it's very simple and easy to understand, do I believe in it? It's not a matter of belief, I just do the practice and see the results, the results are there in my life, so that is where I come from.

If something was watered down, and left out over a period of time, then in a way it is incomplete as compared to what it once was. I believe in the first video by Sergio it is mentioned how effective Ip Man VT is regards and comparison to what is available in mainland China, so they have admitted that, but even with that said, one can still say the WC/VT as it is normally seen today is incomplete, it's all a matter of perpective. The thing is where is the proof? They say they have it, and have shared some of it here, the only thing that is there to prove it is written records, oral stories, and comparing of lineages, of course ppl will see and interpret what they want to see, that is the problem when your living behind a bunch of filters in this life, you don't like Hendriks you create a filter over your eyes as to everything he says and does.

Yes, I work in the security field, know all about the possibility of violent situations in daily life, I deal with it DAILY

J

[Firehawk4]

if Wing Chun does come from fujian White Crane which i believe it is one of the arts Wing Chun comes from what about Fujian Wing or Weng Chun that is mentioned in the Complete Wing Chun Book By Robert Chu and Rene Ritchie this version of Wing or Weng Chun is supposed to come from Fujian province but is not talked about much i know it has some relation to Chi Sim Weng Chun but the Fujian Wing or Weng Chun is from Fujian where Fujian White Crane comes from Robert and Rene s book mentions the forms and the history of the Fujian Wing or Weng Chun anybody know about this system and if it comes from or related to Wing Chun ?

[Hendrik]

What we know is the emei snake technology contribute to the inch power development of Wck.

That is because the emei technology makes aware of the details of joints handling, activation, and force flow handling. It is a unnique technology exclusive in the china ancient art technology . Qi is involve in this emei technology for fine tuning handling the biomechanical via the bio electrical and bio chemical when lead by intention. There is no mysterious at all.


Also, the snake section is place before the Sam bai fut section in the SNT to make sure the require biomechanical development is in place. It can be looked at as a "warm up " preparation step in additional to the martial applications the section.

The missing of this snake section cause the art to divert evol into a harder art. Which can be seen today in some Wck lineages importing spm som Bo gin technology to patch up the gap of power needed.

[Hendrik]

if Wing Chun does come from fujian White Crane which i believe it is one of the arts Wing Chun comes from what about Fujian Wing or Weng Chun that is mentioned in the Complete Wing Chun Book By Robert Chu and Rene Ritchie this version of Wing or Weng Chun is supposed to come from Fujian province but is not talked about much i know it has some relation to Chi Sim Weng Chun but the Fujian Wing or Weng Chun is from Fujian where Fujian White Crane comes from Robert and Rene s book mentions the forms and the history of the Fujian Wing or Weng Chun anybody know about this system and if it comes from or related to Wing Chun ?

Per evidence we know today

A, the shao Lin weng chun of the red boat is based on white crane of fujian
B, wing chun of the red boat is based on emei and white crane of fujian.

Both exist in the red boat in the uprising era . They are sister art belongs to the triad or hung mun or tien tee hui anti Qing group of the red boat. But they are different art.

The facts on eternal spring hall and term chi sim and the salutation signatures are explain in this YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz7x...e=youtube_gdat

[GlennR]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVDA...=youtube_gdata

Blah blah blah blah blah..............

Sitting on a lounge, repeating your mantra Hendrik, does not prove anything...... you (and Sergio) might be right but saying it so doesnt make it so.... simple.

Theres two of your claims you need to prove here;

1. Your historical claims
2. That you believe following your path of thinking will make WC "complete again"

Let put the history aside for a minute and talk about the "complete" aspect"

Ill ask one simple question.

Following your (and now Sergios) way of thinking, will that make me a better WC fighter??
?
My only caveat here would be can you show me someone that has taken up your approach and become just that