San Sik strung together

[KPM]

I learned the difference between what my teacher called the substance and the form. The form and I am not speaking just about fixed sets is a way of conveying the underlying substance. You can convey the same substance in multiple ways or forms.

A person can learn the SLT set and never get the substance. They can also learn the substance it conveys without learning the set.

Yes! Good way to put it!

[LoneTiger108]

Lee Shing is said to have learned KLPS from Fung Sang. That is well known. I would take the idea that he studied KLPS with Fung Lim early in his childhood with a little skepticism. There is always that generational "one-upmanship" to consider in TCMAs. Fung Sang was actively teaching in Hong Kong in the early 1970's. So it is likely that Lee Shing actually learned from Fung Sang AFTER his time with Yip Man. Either way, those "18 Yip Man San Sik" do not match the KLPS San Sik and are very unlikely to have come from Lee Shing.

I know of my Sigung returning to his hometown Hoksan after Ip Man passed away to see what the locals were going to do and research more than he had already done so before he met Ip Man in HK in the 1950's. Although Kulo is within the Hoksan area, it is also understood by myself that Lee Shing never visited Kulo. He is known for learning from the Fung family as they were friends and all knew each other in their youth, so he has been linked with a few.

Whatever combination he taught his students it has always been understood that he was a private student of Ip Man and not interested in running a Martial Arts business as he was a successful restaurant owner. He loved to share his Wing Chun and chose to approach Ip Man for a Baisi so he could plan future promotions on his behalf in the UK. Jiu Wan is known to have witnessed this time, among others, and the Ip family today confirm this too. As time passed he taught different methods to different students and Joe Lee is known more for his teachings of the Fung family way.

Again, I do not tend to label that stuff as Kulo. If we were to name his lifetimes work after a city it would be London because that is where all his teaching blossomed. Where and who he actually learnt from since he was a child is still being researched to this day and as far as teaching a loose method, or breaking down sets for analysis and simplification, I myself do so often and have created many subsets that assist in coaching Wing Chun ideas.

[LoneTiger108]

I forgot to mention that Austin Goh also openly teaches a 'Pien San' method and has done so for at least 2 decades now. From my limited understanding he has quite a few subsets (over 20) that Sigung showed him and some that he has built into his system himself over the years too. This would be akin to training in a 'San Sik' way and it is an additional thing, not something that exists on it's own.

In hindsight I have to also mention here, as I haven't posted in a long time and some here may not know me, that I personally was a Jun Mo student Sifu and so my view and my interpretation of what Sigung passed to my Sifu is different than both kung fu uncles, but I am pretty sure that we all end up heading in the same direction!!

[KPM]

Not sure if this is Cho Ga/Yik Kam WCK? Looks like a lot of San Sik strung together to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBsAo27N0jI

[hunt1]

Not sure if this is Cho Ga/Yik Kam WCK? Looks like a lot of San Sik strung together to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBsAo27N0jI

Version of Cho Ga

[Cho Gar]

Version of Cho Ga

That's master ku Choi wah showing a version of the cho gar SLT. It's not San Sik strung together.

[KPM]

That's master ku Choi wah showing a version of the cho gar SLT. It's not San Sik strung together.

Hello and welcome to the forum! Thanks for the clarification. The youtube video was not labeled very well so I wasn't sure. I realize I poorly worded what I stated, but people following this discussion will know what I meant. I did not mean that the Cho Ga form or anyone else's form was "just" San Sik strung together. Rather this was my point from further up in the thread:


So again, what is the big difference between training these short sequences individually compared to putting them together in one form? Not much in my opinion!

My way of thinking goes like this: Wing Chun forms are different from many of the typical CMA forms we see because they are not a "choreographed fight." They do not rehearse or teach specific moves against an opponent. Rather they train short sequences of moves in a series....like multiple San Sik strung together. KLPSWCK chooses to emphasize training the short sequences individually. Other forms of WCK choose to train them in a series as a long form. This Cho Gar video is another example of that. I think both ways are good and there is no real difference in the end. Others have disagreed with me.

Anyway....nice to see someone from the Cho Gar family here! I hope you will stick around and participate in our discussions. The more diversity in WCK families the better! And the Cho Gar family is one we very seldom here anything about!

[Cho Gar]

Thanks for the welcome,
I look forward to participating in discussions with all you and hopefully shed a little light on Cho Gar.
I think at the moment there's some misunderstanding about our art. For example, I've read on a few forums that people think the cho family added stuff into the SLT but this isn't the case. The Cho family practice other arts apart from wing chun and have modified some of them with wing chun mechanics and principles and this might be where people are getting confused.
Here's a few links to some of our stuff-


Some Public video's of GM Ku Choi Wah of Ban Chung Zheng Dan Kam Wing Chun as taught by the Cho Family



36 Pattern SLT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRbpfs31N20

Sup Sam Sao (13 Hands)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E98f1aNV4jU


Some Basic's of Sup Sam Sao
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ISJjbI4fDs

Various
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbEhtRGHf3U

Partial 36 Pattern SLT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBN2Dy2-C3Y

Penang Martial Arts Gathering 2007
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTKYQHffi3U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Do9x62dxmo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bc32JdEnXEc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-zUrTTbk3U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlOK81jDfcs

Hong Kong Kung Fu Corner

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBsAo27N0jI

[Firehawk4]

Cho Gar dos nt your Cho Gar also have Choy Li Fut and Hung Gar systems from the Cho villiage to what are they like ?

[KPM]

Here's a few links to some of our stuff-


Some Public video's of GM Ku Choi Wah of Ban Chung Zheng Dan Kam Wing Chun as taught by the Cho Family

Thanks for the videos! Definitely some strong resemblance to KLPS in the body mechanics. These videos may get lost in this thread if there are not so many people following it. You should start a new thread of your own and introduce yourself and post this videos. That way more people are likely to see them.

[Vajramusti]

That's master ku Choi wah showing a version of the cho gar SLT. It's not San Sik strung together.

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It'a full form. Interesting. Thx for your comment and sharing.

[Cho Gar]

Cho Gar dos nt your Cho Gar also have Choy Li Fut and Hung Gar systems from the Cho villiage to what are they like ?

I've mainly concentrated on our wing chun so I don't feel the CLF I've been taught qualifies me enough to say to be honest. I think there's a video of someone performing Cho Ga CLF somewhere on YouTube. Firehawk, If you're really interested you should contact Master Ku and visit him in Malaysia.