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Phil Redmond posted this on facebook:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCC_...ature=youtu.be
Not too bad. Better than the Obasi/Gledhill exchange! But again, I think a good example of why you shouldn't stand right in front of someone and exchange blows. Even in Chi Sao!
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one of the better run chi sao competitions that I've seen, you can see good wing chun techniques. I wonder what the rules of this competition are?
My only criticism is that they were exchanging from too far away, so there distancing was off.
Junior Member
this is not chi sao. in chi sao, you stick all the time. its not about hitting.these guys starts off with chi sao, and than wonder into gor sao. sorry guys, just my POV.
Registered User
They aren't training and they aren't fighting, so what they heck is it? I'll never understand using what is meant to be a mutual developmental drill in training as some form of full contact competition. It completely castrates the meaning of the drill as well as free fighting to the point where what they are doing is totally unrecognizable as either.
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I guess it all depends upon how you define "Chi Sao." I see it on a spectrum from simply rolling to practicing techniques in a cooperative fashion to practicing techniques in an uncooperative fashion. For some lineages each phase may have a different term like "Chi Sao", "Gor Sao", "Jao Sao", etc. The "uncooperative" part easily moves on to sparring when you step back out of Chi Sao range. There is nothing to say you cannot fluidly step in and out of Chi Sao range and therefore go from rolling to exchanging to sparring and back again. Just depends on how you want to train it! I agree with LFJ that a cleaner distinction between Chi Sao training and free sparring is better. But I won't fault these guys for choosing to train this way. Likely they do both!
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It's at a competition, right? Like an organized tournament of some sort? Those things usually have free sparring. Where are those vids? Or did they just do this "chi-sau/fight" thing...?Originally Posted by KPM
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My thing is this, there's nothing wrong with what you describe above. We do this too, but the value of it is in its mutuality. We add incremental pressure in order to force out our errors and correct them. We can't just be trying to score the hit. If that's what people want to do, then they should do it in free sparring under more realistic conditions where scoring that hit actually means something.
Registered User
You sir, are wrong.
Junior Member
Sir, it was just my Opinion.now please tell me why Im wrong.
Do you know what CHI-SAO MEANS? if you do please enlighten me.
Registered User
No problem, good sir
Sir, it was just my Opinion.now please tell me why Im wrong.
Do you know what CHI-SAO MEANS? if you do please enlighten me.
Don't confuse the looping exercise called chi sao (tahn/bong/fook) for the skill of chi sao (being able to stick with the bridge).
Free hand hitting (sometimes referred to as san da or gor sao or whatever) and Chi Sao are two sides of the same coin, you can't really being doing one without the other and call it complete. You have to be able to flip in and out of each mode instantly - if someone doesn't lock you into a situation that requires the ability to stick and bridge, you should hit.
Registered User
Perfect description!No problem, good sir
Don't confuse the looping exercise called chi sao (tahn/bong/fook) for the skill of chi sao (being able to stick with the bridge).
Free hand hitting (sometimes referred to as san da or gor sao or whatever) and Chi Sao are two sides of the same coin, you can't really being doing one without the other and call it complete. You have to be able to flip in and out of each mode instantly - if someone doesn't lock you into a situation that requires the ability to stick and bridge, you should hit.
Junior Member
I will not debate with you sir.but I will advise you to be more diligent on your search.nevertheless thank you for YOUR ANSWERNo problem, good sir
Don't confuse the looping exercise called chi sao (tahn/bong/fook) for the skill of chi sao (being able to stick with the bridge).
Free hand hitting (sometimes referred to as san da or gor sao or whatever) and Chi Sao are two sides of the same coin, you can't really being doing one without the other and call it complete. You have to be able to flip in and out of each mode instantly - if someone doesn't lock you into a situation that requires the ability to stick and bridge, you should hit.
Registered User
I agree. If you can't recognise the difference of when you should stick & when you should hit, then you will most likely start chasing hands in a desire to 'stick' when it is not appropriate. IMO, in a very basic sense our main goal in wig chun should be to hit. Only when our way is blocked is chi sau necessary to clear the way to hit.No problem, good sir
Don't confuse the looping exercise called chi sao (tahn/bong/fook) for the skill of chi sao (being able to stick with the bridge).
Free hand hitting (sometimes referred to as san da or gor sao or whatever) and Chi Sao are two sides of the same coin, you can't really being doing one without the other and call it complete. You have to be able to flip in and out of each mode instantly - if someone doesn't lock you into a situation that requires the ability to stick and bridge, you should hit.
And I appreciate the the 2 sides of the same coin analogy and feel it can be summed up with the wing chun kuit:
loi lau hoi sung (stick or 'chi'/heads),
lat sau jik chung (hit/tails)
What chi sau is, or isn't, or is, or wait, what is it..: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...2&postcount=90
Registered User
This means stick (LL) and follow (HS) to you? How do you clear something from the way when you're stuck to it?
Registered User
If you're static you can't, but contact/stick has motion too (i.e. your arm driving forward from the elbow, and/or you body turning and/or you footwork shifting or stepping, etc). So for us, you're clearing a line of attack - sometimes the stick is broken as you move the other guy's arm completely out of the way as you go forward (sometimes they might remove it themselves), and sometimes you create a new line of attack and go forward while contact is still made (e.g. if you strike with a straight punch and I intercept your strike with a straight punch of my own, but I have/create a better angle and so my punch gets to its target as it deflects your own punch. In that example, there is still contact as the line of attack is cleared - or maybe it is better to say a new line of attack is created).
Erik said: "You have to be able to flip in and out of each mode instantly."
One of my teachers refers to this as "breaking in, breaking out," and it's about distance too. As your opponent does his best to play his game and not yours, the range constantly changes - so you're moving in and out of these ranges.
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