Shrimp Boy and the Senator

[David Jamieson]

well, it is his lawyer. lol

[hskwarrior]

i felt the same thing after reading the affidavit.

[hskwarrior]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAUPI2-hxxE

[Vash]

It's not like we were best buds or anything. I doubt he even remembers my name. But we worked together for Shaolin Temple Day many times and he always seemed to recognize me. I've been to his office in Sacto, and been at many banquets with him. Such a shame.

When the axemen show up on our doorstep, I'll delete this thread.

Maybe I need to clear my cache more often; I see my post, then Kung Lek's post, then the rest. Am I missing something?

[Vash]

SoCo/HSK;

I've sent a PM to both of you, and deleted the last two posts. If personal attacks need to continue, please keep them to email.

If we can stay on topic, or if the Lord Ching says, I'll keep the thread open. Otherwise, I'll consider the conversation to have run it's course and lock.

[GeneChing]

As in Mountain Lord? Come on now, don't pull me into this (although if you take the second syllable of my birth certificate name and my surname, you do get "Wah Ching"...srsly).

I think this is a very interesting topic as a barometer of Chinese American perspectives and I'd really like to keep it going, so let's make an effort to stay civil. Clearly, hsk is connected to the Tongs and can provide as much of an insider's perspective as it permitted, and it would be a shame to silence this out of petty flame wars.

That being said, there was a fairly balanced front page article on Shrimp Boy in the SF Chron on Sunday. Most of you only hear the negative story, but for those of us local to SF, there's another side.

The enigma of Raymond Chow, self-proclaimed ex-gangster
John Coté
Updated 10:32 pm, Saturday, April 12, 2014


In this image provided by Jen Siska, Raymond "Shrimp Boy" Chow, is seen posing for a portrait in San Francisco in July 2007. Investigators say Chow is the leader of one of the most powerful Asian gangs in North America. Chow's gang is said to have lured state Sen. Leland Yee into its clutches through money and campaign contributions in exchange for legislative help, as Yee sought to build his campaign coffers to run for California secretary of state. Yee and Chow were both arraigned on federal gun and corruption charges on Wednesday, March 26, 2014. (AP Photo/Jen Siska) MAGS OUT NO SALES NO ARCHIVE Photo: Jen Siska, Associated Press

Even as he sat in federal custody accused of overseeing a $2.3 million money-laundering operation, reputed Chinatown gangster Raymond "Shrimp Boy" Chow managed to have a photo of himself flashing a goofy grin and riding a children's mechanical horse posted to his Facebook page.

"Don't believe everything you read or hear," said the accompanying message, posted March 28. "Make your decision after you meet me and get to know me. I got to laugh today and I hope this photo does the same for you."

That lighthearted image stands in sharp contrast to Chow's dispassionate recounting of the intimidating tactics he used to consolidate San Francisco's Chinese criminal underground starting in the 1980s, or of his time in San Quentin after a 1978 armed robbery conviction, where he counted murderous cult leader Charles Manson as a "good friend of mine."

There are two deeply conflicting versions of Chow, the 5-foot, 5-inch package of calm intensity with a thin mustache above a hearty smile who in recent years frequented art galleries, drank at the swanky Hakkasan restaurant and sported eye-catching shirts, crisp jackets and a pocket square.

One is the gangster who once declared, "I run this city." The other is the reformed convict who spent hours warning teenagers against taking up the gang life, talked convincingly about "peace and love," and won the praise of top politicians such as Mayor Ed Lee, who provided Chow with a certificate of honor for his "tenacity and willingness to give back to the community."
Nuanced reality?

Whether the two can be reconciled should eventually play out in a San Francisco federal courtroom. There may also be a more nuanced reality: that Chow, at 54 years old, was striving to better himself and genuinely cared about youth, but couldn't fully leave the world of crime he had known since he was 9 years old - or ignore the practical need for money.

The man known to some in Chinatown as Dai Lo, which translates as "big brother" in Cantonese but can also connote "mob boss," says he has been in an immigration limbo for the last 10 years that precludes him from working legally. But Chow said in a Dec. 12, 2012, Facebook post that he relies on friends and family to survive and has not returned to his old ways. Chow, who is still in custody after his March 26 arrest, is commenting only through his attorneys.

The FBI contends Chow merely cultivated an image of legitimacy, removing himself from hands-on crime while still getting a cut of the proceeds brought in by the criminal network he oversaw and operated out of Ghee Kung Tong, also known as the Chinese freemasons. Chow was the leader, or "dragon head," of that tong, one of the oldest fraternal organizations in San Francisco's Chinatown.

A 137-page FBI affidavit filed in U.S. District Court last month alleges that a faction of tong members overseen by Chow laundered what they thought were drug and illegal gambling proceeds; sold cognac, scotch and cigarettes they thought were stolen; dealt guns; conspired to sell drugs; and provided introductions that led to bribery and an international arms scheme involving now-suspended state Sen. Leland Yee, D-San Francisco.

After being introduced to an undercover FBI agent posing as a member of the Mafia from New Jersey, Chow allegedly whispered to the agent during a meeting in a karaoke bar that he was no longer involved in crime, but that he "knew of and approved all criminal activities within his organization," according to the affidavit by FBI Special Agent Emmanuel Pascua.

Chow has been charged with seven counts of money laundering, two counts of conspiracy to transport and receive stolen liquor, and one count of conspiracy to traffic untaxed cigarettes - with the contraband provided by the FBI. He faces up to 20 years in prison for each money-laundering count, the ones that carry the harshest penalties. Twenty-eight other people, including Yee, face charges in the wide-ranging case.

Chow's attorneys have blasted the allegations against him as "government-created criminality" manufactured by the FBI, which spent five years on an undercover investigation, providing money to be laundered and pushing for more serious crimes. His legal team says those efforts turned up no real evidence against their main target, Chow.

In prosecution documents alone, there are 25 instances where Chow says he wants nothing to do with crime and four times that he discourages the undercover agent from illegal activity, including dealing heroin, his attorneys said at a news conference last week. Chow also demurred when credited with introductions that led to alleged money laundering or drug deals with others, his attorneys said.

"That's terrible dude, I don't want to know, that's illegal stuff," Chow told the agent posing as a mafioso on Feb. 14, 2013, when asked what he thought the agent and George Nieh, a member of the Ghee Kung Tong and a Chow associate who now faces criminal charges, were up to.

"That's what an innocent man says to an undercover agent," said Curtis Briggs, an attorney who met Chow a few years ago doing community work and volunteered to defend him in court.

At that same meeting, the affidavit said, after the undercover agent gave Chow an envelope containing $2,000 and thanked him for the "opportunity to work with his people," Chow laughed and said, "No, no, I didn't give you the opportunity; you make your own opportunity. ****, that is bribery money dude, that's not good."

But he took the cash.

According to the affidavit, it was part of at least $58,000 the agent paid Chow over almost three years, ending in December, as his cut from money laundering, purportedly stolen liquor sales and contraband cigarettes.
Testified against boss

Chow maintains that he has been clean since he was released early from federal prison in 2003 after he agreed to testify against his former boss, Peter Chong, a reputed leader of the Wo Hop To triad, an organized crime syndicate based in Hong Kong. Chong had worked with Chow to consolidate Asian gangs in San Francisco and beyond. Chong was released from prison in 2008.

Chow, a Chinese citizen, was allowed to remain in the United States wearing an ankle monitor as he applied for a special visa reserved for witnesses in criminal cases. That application is still pending, according to the FBI.

He also can't legally work in the United States because of his immigration status, according to his attorneys, who say federal authorities reneged on a promise to put Chow in a witness protection program and left him to return to the only life he's known - the criminal underworld.

Chow has previously said he joined an organized crime group at age 9 in his native Hong Kong, where he was born Kwok Cheung Chow. His grandmother gave him the nickname Shrimp Boy out of the belief that evil spirits could not find little children if they didn't know their name. He was the smallest of five brothers, so the name stuck, he said in a 2007 interview.

When his family moved to the United States in 1976 when he was 16, Chow found familiarity in the Hop Sing Boys, a street gang that was the enforcement arm of the Hop Sing Tong, one of the numerous tongs, or fraternal groups, with their roots in the Hung Mun, a secret society that began in mid-17th century China to overthrow the Manchu-ruled Qing Dynasty.

The offshoot groups that sprang up during waves of immigration to the United States and elsewhere sometimes served as mini-governments and a bulwark against rampant discrimination. The tongs settled disputes, provided aid to immigrants and approved business locations. Some also engaged in extortion, prostitution and the opium trade.

Violent tong

By the 1970s, most San Francisco tongs had become social clubs for aging immigrants. But Hop Sing was torn by violence as younger members struggled for power with older leaders.

continued next post

[GeneChing]

Note that there is a vid too, if you follow the link above.

In 1977, a year after Chow arrived in San Francisco, he was one of a group of young gangsters inside Chinatown's Golden Dragon restaurant, in a Hop Sing-owned building, when rival gang members burst in and opened fire. Five patrons were killed and 11 people wounded - none of them gang members.

Chow quickly distinguished himself within the Hop Sing Boys with his blend of charisma and ruthlessness, and would later boast of controlling all of the region's Asian gangs.

"If you are asking me which gang did I join, I did not join any gang," Chow told a federal prosecutor in 2002. "I owned the gang. ... All those people who were walking the streets of the Bay Area, all of them were controlled by me."

Chow was convicted in 1978 for a Chinatown robbery and served a little over seven years of an 11-year prison sentence.

He was released in 1985, but found himself back behind bars a year later, charged with assault with a deadly weapon and other crimes. Chow served three years and was released in 1989, but was arrested again in 1992, when he was charged, along with Chong, with leading a widespread criminal network attempting to unify Chinese gangs on both U.S. coasts under the Wo Hop To triad.

Chow pleaded guilty in federal court to racketeering involving murder for hire, conspiracy to distribute heroin, arson and other crimes. He got his sentence cut in half after he agreed to testify against Chong and was released in 2003.

He emerged from prison a changed man, said Eli Crawford III, a former inmate who said he served as the orderly in the secure unit, or solitary confinement prison block, where Chow had been housed.

"Raymond made a promise not only to me, but he made the promise to God," said Crawford, who said that since their release from the prison, both men had worked together to tamp down violence in San Francisco's Bayview and Western Addition neighborhoods. He said they also conducted a three-day workshop at San Francisco City College in 2012 on education and re-entry into society after incarceration.

But less than two years after Chow's release from prison in 2003, his name was connected to an alleged attempt to extort $100,000 from the Hop Sing Tong.

Allen Leung, an elder at that point in both the Hop Sing Tong and the Ghee Kung Tong - also known as Chee Kung Tong, or CKT - went to the FBI in 2005 with concerns and later said he feared for his life.

Leung told the FBI the problems had begun in late 2004, when two young members of Hop Sing sought about $100,000 from the organization. Leung told FBI Special Agent William Wu that Chow had also shown up at Hop Sing's headquarters in late 2004 making the same demand.

In February 2005, a restaurant and four Chinatown buildings that housed tongs - but not Hop Sing - were vandalized with red paint. About two weeks later, Leung and other Hop Sing leaders met and voted to turn down the request for $100,000, Leung told authorities.

The next day, several shots were fired into the door of the Hop Sing Tong, police said. Later in March, Hop Sing leaders received a taunting letter that read: "Someone opened fire to front door but you're just chickens -. No response to it. Just keeping your mouth quiet. Having this kind of leader makes all the tongs lose face. I have a poem to dedicate to you. 'You should be embarrassed for a thousand years and your reputation stink for 10,000 years.' "

When asked by the FBI, Chow denied the extortion threat and said that Hop Sing board members had approached him and "wanted him to loan-shark the money," according to court documents.

Unsolved slaying

Less than a year later, on Feb. 26, 2006, Leung was shot dead in his import-export business on Jackson Street as his wife looked on. His killing has not been solved. Chow, who wore a white suit to Leung's funeral, has denied any involvement in his killing, suggesting that others could have tried to extort money using his name.

Six months after the killing, Chow took Leung's place as leader of Ghee Kung Tong, and the FBI and San Francisco police both conducted surveillance at his swearing in.

But acquaintances said Chow resisted the pull of the underworld - instead talking to troubled youth through violence-prevention groups like United Playaz, and working on an autobiography with the help of a ghostwriter and his girlfriend of the past six years.

He has plans to turn his story into a movie and told the undercover FBI agent he had $50,000 set aside to get his book published, and had a potential book and movie deal worth $3 million that he was reluctant to sign because he wanted to control the production.

"From what I could see, I thought he was very sincere," said Bill Lee, a former San Francisco planning commissioner and former city administrator who has attended some Ghee Kung Tong banquets. "I told him, 'I don't mind helping you.' "

Until recently, Chow lived on Potrero Hill at the home of his girlfriend, Alicia Lo, who, according to her Facebook page, models and works in sales and marketing for a custom cabinetry and handmade furniture company. Lo declined to comment when reached at her home or after the press conference last week at the law offices of Chow's attorneys, where she sat in the audience wearing sunglasses.

Lo cried at one point when one of the speakers, Rudy Corpuz Jr., a felon turned community activist who invited Chow on numerous occasions to talk to teenagers about making smart choices in life, said, "I got love for the brother. And I say that from my heart."

Positive influence

By all accounts, Lo helped Chow turn his life around, shepherding him on the book deal, taking care of him, even buying him clothes.

"She has been an extremely positive, consistent force in Raymond's life," Briggs said. "She believes in him 200 percent. She helped him. She had resources."

Despite Chow's dapper dress, in October 2011 he told an undercover FBI agent that he was broke.

The agent responded that Chow had a lot of nice clothes and jewelry, and "Chow explained that he did not understand why people gave him things all the time."

Many of the clothes, though, Lo bought for him secondhand at shops like Goodwill, said Briggs, who described Chow as "this almost monastic figure who is trying to put the pieces together."

"He had a lot of friends who saw him doing community work," Briggs said. "There is nobody who met Ray who didn't want to help him."

Perhaps one of the most telling exchanges - and one that may reveal much about Chow - was recorded by the FBI on May 6, 2012, when he was talking to Nieh in Nieh's car, neither man realizing the FBI was bugging the conversation.

During that seemingly unguarded moment, Chow voiced concerns about having Ghee Kung Tong members working with a person they thought was a member of the Mafia, and said he didn't want the organization involved.

"Chow said he was afraid of the (tong) being tagged as an 'underworld society' and 'participating in organized crime,' " according to the FBI affidavit. "Chow said that was all he was worried about, but, of course, he wanted to make money."

In almost the next breath, he had his defense planned out.

"Chow said if he got ratted out, he would claim that he had only introduced the relationship," according to the affidavit, "and that he didn't know what they were doing."

The press always makes a big deal of Shrimp Boy wearing a white suit at Allan Leung's funeral as if it was a sign of disrespect, but actually, white is the funeral color for most Asian cultures.

[hskwarrior]

Raymond Chow was next in line to take the Dragon Head aka Mountain Lord position. Mountain Lord, White Paper Fans, Incense Masters, Blue Lanterns, and Red Sticks titles are no different than titles you will find in European Masonic lodges who also have silly names like "Prince of Mercy" "Worshipful Master" "Grand Wardens" "Grand Bible Bearer" "Lieutenant Grand Commander" "Right Illustrious" and so on. So, sure the outsiders (non chinese) are going to make fun of the "Mountain Lord" name because they themselves have no culture.

Anyways. The first time I'd ever heard of or seen Raymond was at Allen Leung's funeral. That day his mercedez pulled up to the curb and out jumped Raymiond wearing all white. At first even i too thought that was a bold move. Yet, at the same time i know white is what traditional chinese wear to a funeral. And, if anyone knew raymond, "TRADITIONAL" is somethnig he strongly believes in. I knew allen Leung and knew of suspicions of who actually killed him were floating around. Regardless, no one knew who did it. The latest thought on who may have killed him were communists from china. Till this day, i feel horrible for Allen's family, gung fu lineage (Leung's White Crane), and friends. But I was honored to be there to send him home (Funeral and Burial). I'd never been to a traditional chinese funeral much less witness the inner workings of the Chinese Secret Societies in this regard. Allen was a well liked person by those who knew him. Still, his dragon head position was and still is under raymond....... very powerful. It is a position highly respected by leaders of Asian countries. I can vouch for that as well.

My sifu as well as my sigung and Lau Bun had already been a members of the Ghee Kung Tong for most of their lives and served under a number of Dragon heads. Now, i kept my mouth shut about what went down recently and didn't even want to talk about it because I was ****ed off that Raymond allowed himself to get caught up in this recent mess. From the moment he hand picked me to be an officer of his lodge I told him myself that if he was still involved with crime i didn't want anything to do with him nor the tong. But after working very closely with him (EVERY **** DAY OF THE WEEK) i believed he was seriously trying to turn over a new leaf. To me, being a Dragon Head was far more important and respectable than ever being the leader of some gang. So i stressed that to him constantly. I helped him with his book project, his movie project, his community projects, his charity work (for which many people don't touch because its too "GOOD" of a thing and boring in comparison to criminal activities). While the media will never let raymond live down his past deeds, they never focus on the good that he was doing in the community.

Whenever there was a disaster in China, Taiwan, or anywhere he always have us do charity drives to make donations to various disaster relief funds. Raymond was the first Dragon Head to ever go outside of the Chinese community to help save the youth of the samoan, black, asian, and latino communities. He honestly cares about the kids and always tells them to stay in school and get that education. one of the things he always tells them is to do is register to vote as soon as they are able to. So i know where his heart is and the direction he wanted to go. His passion to right his wrongs are very strong regardless of his current situation. And he was finally enjoying a life of people showing him love and respect. The community saw what he was doing and they began to show him love as well.

now, for anyone interested in knowing what life is like for raymond outside of the tong. Aside from my tong duties, I was sort of Raymond's personal assistant. While the media and cops were saying Raymond was evil and should never have been let out of jail, I got to see what the government was doing to him in regards to his personal life. They didn't allow him to work in order to make a living for himself. Also, they chained him down to the SF bay area, so he could never do anything without them knowing. he forever wears the ankle tracker so they track his every movement. In spite of constant requests to have it removed or even to get him a certain type of visa they repeatedly denied him. If he wanted to leave SF for L.A. he had to request permission first. I know because i was the one sending the emails. They would mess with him and deny certain requests just to deny them. As well, the cops would go to raymond's rivals to get them to go after him, or give them his cell phone to have them call and harass or even threaten him. Raymond just wanted to get back to a normal life, but the authorities wouldn't let that happen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOTHKAybG0M

Every positive move Raymond has tried to make, he is met with his past via the media who only play it up to get ratings. Raymond was beginning prove the police and all of his nay sayers wrong, which is why i remained with him as an active member of his tong. They hated seeing him succeed in his mission to live a new life. They even said it in the documentary, they could never find any evidence buy had always had suspicion. They continued with their suspicion but could never find anything on him. they (the cops) were getting ****ed about it too. he really was proving them wrong. So, what did they do? They knocked on HIS door, THEY went searching for HIM. He wasn't out there laundering anything. He wasn't out there selling drugs, shaking anyone down, he wasn't gun running, he wasn't ordering crimes to be done. He isn't the leader of any gang, either regardless of what the media tries to paint him out to be.

Regardless of how people feel about raymond, I got to know him very well in the time that i was working side by side to him. I know he doesn't have money because the police won't let him have a job. So how is the man supposed to eat? How is the man supposed to live? Fortunately for him, he had an awesome girlfriend who taught him how to dress and bought his clothes for him. He was driving the same old mercedes for so long that it eventually just died. that's why he doesn't have it now. it was nice tho. bullet proof and everything. the next car that he got was given to him by a tong brother but it was a bucket!!! then he'd drive his girls car to get him places. so if he had all kinds of illegal money, he would have used it to buy himself a nice ride. but NOPE.

Now, everyone from raymond's past were gangsters. so today, they still see him in chinatown. they take him to lunch or breakfast. he really does survive with the help of others. So the UCE's come knocking on his door saying they want to commit crimes he really did tell them he cannot and will not be involved with these crimes. This is stated in the affidavit. Still, they tempted a hungry man with what he was in need of. money. why? he was trying to publish his book and work on his movie. he was just trying to live like a normal human being. But for most of his life, the criminal world was all he knew up to 2006. Since he took over as the new Dragon Head and being a man on a mission to redeem his past, he got the chance to meet and make friends with people he would never have the chance to meet in the past. I personally know what the man felt about his succeeding in life without crime. I was constantly trying to get him to go back to school to get his diploma. He was falling in love with honest hard working success. he was doing positive things. THE POLICE HATED IT.

[hskwarrior]

They hated it so much that they came knocking on his door looking to commit crimes. They didn't catch raymond or any of the others in the midst of doing crimes. Regardless of Raymond introducing the UCE's to people then they - minus raymond - commited crimes on their own time. They didn't commit these crimes FOR raymond. he never ordered anything to take place. raymond wasn't going to have any part of what THEY were going to do. Never did the affidavit say he asked for a cut. They came to him giving him money was a way to trap him into their crimes. he knew he didn't have part to play in their crimes, but was money hungry so he took it. if they were giving it, he needed it, so there you go. but did he take it as his acknowledged cut for their crimes? NOPE. And as the lawyer stated, there's no crime against "Gratuity".

In the end, I personally feel that the feds and other targeted him because he wasn't doing any crimes. he was succeeding in helping the kids, turning his life around, and gaining the support of san francisco's communities. As well, i don't trust the entire affidavit as i know they are notorious for chalking up crimes to be more than they really are hoping something will stick. for example, i know some kids who were selling fireworks and their stupid asses put an ad in craigslist i think. anyways the feds got wind of it and contacted them to buy some. needless to say they got busted and the charges were huge. i'm talking about homeland security and terrorism type charges. i mean it looked bad for these kids. when it crossed the judges lap, the judge looked at the charges and looked at the evidence then looked at the cops and tell them "It's firecrackers", not EXPLOSIVES like real bombs and such. then he gave the kids misdemeanors for the offense and reprimanded the police for wasting everyone's time.

My personal connection to the Ghee Kung Tong is not because of Raymond Chow or wanting to be a criminal. My connection is one of tradition. One of our gung fu founders teachers is the founder of what is currently known today as Ghee Kung Tong back in China. So from Jeung Hung Sing, Yuen Hai, Lau Bun, Jew Leong, my sifu and myself we have maintained the connection since 1849 until the present (165 years). I didn't join to serve under Raymond. I was trying to join under Allen Leung first and via our gung fu lineage have also served under previous Dragon Heads till now. But Raymond always knew about me and that's why i was hand picked by him to be an officer to serve under him. So, for all the haters who believed i was a member of his tong because i was trying to be a criminal or whatever.....YOU'RE WRONG. My reasons are purely traditional. Today I'm honored to say I am the first blue eye'd person to hold office in an organization with the Ghee Kung Tong's history. I am not there for raymond and even if he gets life in prison, I am still going to be a member of GKT regardless of who the next Dragon Head may be.

[Syn7]

Mountain Lord is a dope title! I like how it sounds.

[hskwarrior]

I prefer Dragon Head. I like the way that sounds.

[hskwarrior]

tHIS IS HELLA FUNNY.....

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/ls...re-we-kidding-

[GeneChing]

Good ol' slick Willie

Let's everybody calm down about the Leland Yee ruckus
Willie Brown
Published 3:44 pm, Saturday, April 19, 2014


Former Mayor Willie Brown poses for a portrait at his apartment in the St. Regis Hotel on Thursday July 31, 2008 in San Francisco, Calif. Photo: Mike Kepka, The Chronicle

I'm starting to feel sorry for Leland Yee. He is holed up in his house and everyone thinks of him as the reincarnation of Al Capone.

Give the guy a break. When all is said and done, his alleged crimes come down to taking campaign contributions in return for issuing proclamations, using campaign funds to set up a meeting and taking campaign funds for writing a letter.

Never did he sell his vote, steal public money or actually put money in his own pocket, as far as I can tell.

None of Yee's decisions affected the public.

I've gone over the FBI's criminal complaint and, from what I can see, the biggest crime he was accused of was trying hustle some undercover FBI agents who were out to get alleged Chinatown gang leader Raymond "Shrimp Boy" Chow.

The 137-page indictment says nothing about Yee being involved with the drug and murder-for-hire charges leveled at some of the others.

And there was apparently never a gun-running operation involving him. It was allegedly just Yee thinking he could hustle some money, that he was ripping off someone who was not very smart. Instead it was an FBI agent.

When all is said and done, Yee appears to be a petty thief - the guy that walks past the fruit stand and, when you're not looking, takes an apple and keeps walking.

He should not be in government, but that doesn't mean he is dangerous.

And sending him to jail is a waste of time. He is already screwed for life.

[David Jamieson]

Good ol' slick Willie

In all fairness there are a great many people who are in government who perhaps should not be in government.
But they are there because they got voted in. So, who's at fault? That's right, we the people.

[bawang]