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Thread: Can someone explain what the purpose of this type of training?

  1. #1

    Can someone explain what the purpose of this type of training?

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A-xjkIAF9XQ


    Why would one try to develop this skill? Anyone think it looks fake?

  2. #2
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    I'm always allergy to "push". It's against the basic principle that "One should keep his friend close but his enemies closer." When an octopus eats a fish, that octopus will never "push" that fish away.
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 04-09-2014 at 04:37 PM.
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Happy panda View Post
    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A-xjkIAF9XQ


    Why would one try to develop this skill?
    It depends on the context. It's not useful if you push someone and just stand there unless you push the opponent to somewhere dangerous. In xinyi we push so that we can use the opportunity and follow the unbalanced opponent with a series of fast strikes. Also sometimes when you have multiple opponents spending too much time on one might be dangerous and pushing him might give you a chance to move and avoid the other opponents surrounding you. However pushing people around and sending them flying is mostly done in demos and not much in serious training. In some cases it shows the effortless power that a kungfu practitioner can generate because of good body mechanics but in serious training they don't use that power for sending people away and instead they keep the opponent close and use that power on them to cause damage.


    As for that video I don't think it's fake. The old guy has some power and he is not using all of it. The younger guy is standing very loose and doesn't resist as a dummy which is probably out of respect.
    Last edited by xinyidizi; 04-09-2014 at 06:28 PM.

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    Like YouKnowWho, I am allergic to push. I know of no street encounter where you do the 'qi' push and people walk away. Learn how to run, hide, condition yourself and learn functional CMA to allow someone to think twice before they can catch up with you. Keep fit and stay conditioned is the first step. Just call me a skeptic in small letters!

    Just because you are a vegetarian in the jungle, it does not mean that the lion or tiger will leave you alone.

  5. #5
    I dunno, they both have their time and place. Along with the pushpull and the pullpush. That stuff works and it's in pretty much every art in one way or another. At least the ones that have more than one range.

    Maintaining a grip, clinch, top position, whatever, can be a huge advantage. But maybe not. It depends. I'll never understand somebody that says "nah, I'll never push" or "I'l never clinch" "only strike" "only grapple" etc etc...

    How many times have you seen a guy holding on get beat up like hockey style. So many times.

    How bout the guy who dances around all cute, gets shot on and ends up getting slammed and beat up? Or just KO'd straight up by a more direct opponent? Or vice versa. So many times.

    Fighting is so much more nuanced than style could ever address. I'm not saying you should have no style, but keep an open mind.


    All that being said. Anyone who thinks you can push somebody off you and call that flawless victory is delusional and likely to get hurt in a real encounter. Lotta flaky stuff out there. But that doesn't mean there aren't guys out there working hard and making things work against a wide range of styles.
    Last edited by Syn7; 04-09-2014 at 10:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    I'm always allergy to "push". It's against the basic principle that "One should keep his friend close but his enemies closer." When an octopus eats a fish, that octopus will never "push" that fish away.
    You use push-pull combined in SC.

    If you just pick one thing in isolation, it's probably not as useful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by -N- View Post
    You use push-pull combined in SC.

    If you just pick one thing in isolation, it's probably not as useful.
    If you "push" your opponent's upper body and "pull" his lower leg, that's called "throw".

    http://johnswang.com

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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by -N- View Post
    You use push-pull combined in SC.

    If you just pick one thing in isolation, it's probably not as useful.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    If you "push" your opponent's upper body and "pull" his lower leg, that's called "throw".
    How about push-pull in shaking?

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    Nice bit of Loong Ying. In the first few encounters, the second guy jumped back, as you would have to do to maintain structure against this attack, its a 50/50 result. With that weight, you have to move. So, about 45seconds in, he starts crossing the second guy up, so he can't hop back, and pushes him off balance, again, just enough. The weight difference has a big impact too. He's just going light, enough for the second to feel it in his hands, to understand where it comes from. Its teaching, not fighting, just to be clear.

    When you train a striking style that sticks in close, you need a tool to make a little room sometimes.

    If he laid into him, the guy would cop a strike, as well as the balance attack. The follow up, as mentioned by xinyidizi, is the other half. This kind of attack is multiplied if you catch the guy advancing on you.

    We have a lot of pushing and barging. I've copped a bui through a thick training vest that hurt the ribs for a week. Stopped me dead in an attack, and probably would have cost me ribs without the vest. And I had 20kg on the kid.

    As a teenager, I won a final in a tournament (TKD) by repeatedly pushing the guy out of the square. <shrugs> Tricks…..

    Good stuff.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yum Cha View Post
    When you train a striking style that sticks in close, you need a tool to make a little room sometimes.

    [...]

    The follow up, as mentioned by xinyidizi, is the other half.
    Yep and yep.

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    Similar push concept here at 2:32.

    Praying Mantis ding chi chui.



    The left rising pushing arm does more of the work than the punch.

    If you intercept properly, the harder the person rushes in with his punch, the harder he gets thrown back.

    You need very little force, and the other guy practically rebounds and throws himself.

    Usually people are surprised when they get bounced off like that.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by -N- View Post
    You need very little force, and the other guy practically rebounds and throws himself.

    Usually people are surprised when they get bounced off like that.
    p.s. kick his head like a soccer ball after he's down.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by -N- View Post
    Similar push concept here at 2:32.

    Praying Mantis ding chi chui.



    The left rising pushing arm does more of the work than the punch.

    If you intercept properly, the harder the person rushes in with his punch, the harder he gets thrown back.

    You need very little force, and the other guy practically rebounds and throws himself.

    Usually people are surprised when they get bounced off like that.
    Sweet, love that technique.
    Last edited by MightyB; 04-11-2014 at 07:06 AM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by -N- View Post
    p.s. kick his head like a soccer ball after he's down.
    That's why you should not push your opponent away. You want to throw your opponent down at the right spot so your kick can reach to his head.

    http://johnswang.com

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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    That's why you should not push your opponent away. You want to throw your opponent down at the right spot so your kick can reach to his head.

    There are different ways depending on the situation. I have learned both throws similar to what you like and pushing+follow up striking. I think the second one works much faster and it is more stronger if both feet are on the ground as you quickly step towards the opponent and in some cases even needs sinking a little bit. I guess the reason both are taught is that sometimes you can afford to stand and finish but sometimes you need to move and fight.

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