The expensive Lesson in the history of red boat uprising which Wck involve in

[KPM]

One thing I'd like to raise if I may here as a White Crane stylists or even an other stylist looking in, all this back and forth stuff really doesn't make me want to know more about Wing Chun. In fact quite the opposite.

To an outsider, martial artist or not, this one up-manship, this "only I have or know the real Wing Chun" does a great dis-service to the art in all of its forms and lineages ...... just something to consider.

Good point Ron. I agree with you.

[Kellen Bassette]

Wow! Highly insulting! Stating I know little about traditional Chinese Martial Arts and Okinawan Martial Arts!

This response is an insult to me in the terms of my own martial art. Your tone implies that I know very little of anything.

Apologies, but I was simply matching the tone given.

[Minghequan]

Kellen, I'm not interested in some form of one up-manship or Internet P#ssing Contest.

I'm not into putting people down for the sake of my own ego or to score a few points with other posters.

So lets leave it at that shall we?

However, you did not answer my question regarding just how much Fuzhou White Crane you have personally experienced and what Okinawan Martial Arts you have studied?

Then I'd know or at the least have an idea of where your coming from.

I'll repeat my background overview not that it's anything all that special:

Me? I know nothing. I have only be doing the Martial Arts for the past 43 years so I am only just "scratching the surface". A period of those years was in Nihon Karate (Shotokan & Goju Ryu) then moving on to Okinawan Martial Arts from 1988 (Matsumura Seito Shorin-Ryu, Kochinda Saburo Ryukyu Kobudo, Koshinkan Kojo Ryu and Hakutsuru). From there (1996) - to present day) my final phase and current place of learning in the Zhenlan Minghequan Tradition. I have also studied the Taiji of Erle Montaigue and am a recognised instructor in that system.

As you can plainly see, my experiences are very little and I'm a nobody in the greater scheme of things. I am a old, slightly overweight grey haired guy of very little skill and even less knowledge.

I'd be happy to bow to your knowledge on this subject. Just show me your experiences of this area of discussion and I'll gladly give way to your knowledge!

[PalmStriker]

Minghequan, check your PM box and let me know if message was received, thanks.

[Minghequan]

Thanks Keith. Really all this discussion is doing nothing good for the image of Wing Chun which if my "Google Fu" is any good .... well it's not that crash hot anyway (Due to the in-fighting, "My Wing Chun am better than yours", "only I have the one true way", stuff I am seeing and reading).

So threads like this really do this great art a terrible dis-service and lower not only the art but those practitioners who endlessly debate, put-down and claim that theirs is the one true Wing Chun.

All are forgetting the one thing of real importance! Do you enjoy your art & training?

If so, then all this "kerfuffle" is of no importance or relevance to you!

Just get on with it! Less talk, less endless debate about who is right or wrong, 1850's Wing Chun versus present day! Seriously, when all this Cyber Bulldust is settled what has it achieved except for people who should be training and enjoying their art spending countless hours punching away at a keyboard!

I don't care if you agree with my art. I don't care if you say your art is better than mine. I don't call if you say I am a fraud, only a historian, not a fighter or too much of a fighter! Why because at the end of the day, I will still be training away, working on myself for myself! At the end of the day I can spend time with my wife and children and this whole debate has no hold of me!

Maybe others also need to simply let go and simply "Be!"

[Minghequan]

Palmstriker .... Done & replied!

[PalmStriker]

Thanks, some stuff I thought you might be interested in.

[Firehawk4]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwSz961XkZk

[Minghequan]

Lol! Seriously? That vid was filmed way back in 95 not long after a return from Naha-shi. The form is a small section of the Okinawan Nepai (Chinese: Ershibabu) and I was very young if I recall I was about 30??? Taught to me by Yabiku Takaya whose "Hakutsuru" was more Chinese than Okinawan. this form, he claimed, came to him via two guys: Wong O'gan Pyon and a Chinese guy Zhuan Ping. Truth is, its largely rubbish! I haven't practiced that form since that year.

Here is some footage of me doing our "Open" (Level 1 of 3) version of SanZhan Ba Xian Zhang:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bq_brh6zas

This is one of the closing sections of our Fanq Qiniang Shou Form:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBKHYb90lBw

And one of my young guys doing pole:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULtmCQ7aL0M

None of us are very special or all that good!

[Kellen Bassette]

Kellen, I'm not interested in some form of one up-manship or Internet P#ssing Contest.

I'm not into putting people down for the sake of my own ego or to score a few points with other posters.

Nor am I.

So lets leave it at that shall we?

Fair enough...I don't try to make anything personal, just stating the fact that the link between Fujian and Okinawan MA is well known.

However, you did not answer my question regarding just how much Fuzhou White Crane you have personally experienced and what Okinawan Martial Arts you have studied?

I do not have White Crane background. I do have a background in Go Ju Ryu.

[Minghequan]

How long have you done Goju-Ryu and is it the Okinawan or Japanese variant??? What form of Goju-Ryu?

So you haven't done any White Crane? That's interesting. I don't wish to be demeaning here but how can you speak on behalf of an art you have never done?

[KPM]

How long have you done Goju-Ryu and is it the Okinawan or Japanese variant??? What form of Goju-Ryu?

So you haven't done any White Crane? That's interesting. I don't wish to be demeaning here but how can you speak on behalf of an art you have never done?

It seems to me that he is not "speaking of behalf" of White Crane, just as I am not "speaking on behalf" of White Crane when I say it shares lots of similarities to WCK. If you own a Lexus do you have to also own a Mercedes when you compare your Lexus to a similar model Mercedes? If you have a degree in Engineering to you also have to have a degree in Physics to talk about how similar the two disciplines are at times? Would you be "speaking on behalf" of WCK if you said it didn't share similarities with White Crane?

[Minghequan]

It seems to me that he is not "speaking of behalf" of White Crane, just as I am not "speaking on behalf" of White Crane when I say it shares lots of similarities to WCK. If you own a Lexus do you have to also own a Mercedes when you compare your Lexus to a similar model Mercedes? If you have a degree in Engineering to you also have to have a degree in Physics to talk about how similar the two disciplines are at times? Would you be "speaking on behalf" of WCK if you said it didn't share similarities with White Crane?

Hey KPM, I don't want to come across as disrespectful here but why don't you let Kellen Bassette actually reply to the questions put forward???

Now that would be a novel approach!

That's the inherent problem with forums, too many chef's and not enough cooks in the kitchen or in this case too many Masters, not enough learners.

And also the usual "Pack-Dog" mentality which see's everyone and their pet budgie jump in!

Look at your own defence of Hendrik against this very same thing and now your jumping in on me? Just a differing viewpoint to all maybe

Now to the actual subject, you are comparing White Crane and Okinawa Arts to a Lexus and a Mercedes ...... really? I mean .... really???

And you have an idea of Okinawan Arts and Crane how? Don't justify, just answer the question put forward.

You "Martial Artists" (I'm not one, just a Seeker of the Way) are a funny type of beast! So easily bent out of shape over so little. I wonder how that works?

Me, happy all the time, lovely family, extremely happy with my pursuits in life so maybe the lesson is really don't sweat the small stuff.

It's only a forum. It's only Martial Arts. Just enjoy the communication and leave out the habitual and consistent "point-scoring" and maybe we would all be better off for it!

Just a suggestion ............

[crazedjustice88]

hahahaha this thread got interesting.

As far as the connection between the two styles goes I recently watched that kung fu quest series and it seems that both white crane masters and the okinawan masters and grand masters all agreed that the karate came from some branch of the white crane school, so theres that...
Just my 2 cents.

[KPM]

Hey KPM, I don't want to come across as disrespectful here but why don't you let Kellen Bassette actually reply to the questions put forward???

Now that would be a novel approach!

Well Ron, I don't mean to be disrespectful either. But I think you're full of cr@p!

That's the inherent problem with forums, too many chef's and not enough cooks in the kitchen or in this case too many Masters, not enough learners.

And also the usual "Pack-Dog" mentality which see's everyone and their pet budgie jump in!

Here is exactly what I'm talking about. I think that way too often people here don't speak up in support of someone else. Take my recent exchange with our HFY colleagues as an example. I had 3 different HFY guys telling me I was wrong. Yet I know the majority of non-HFY people reading along were very likely agreeing with everything I said. But no one really spoke up until near the end. To the HFY guys that made it sound like I was "off the wall" or "out there" and not speaking for a pretty common viewpoint. Too often on this forum people are unwilling to back each other up. That's all I was doing. I thought your comment to Kellen was out of line, so I spoke up and said something. This is a free discussion forum. Anyone is welcome to chime in with a comment or opinion. If you didn't want anyone else as part of the conversation then you should have responded to Kellen via Private Message.

I also felt justified in speaking up because you had made this comment on another thread:

I had said:
The link with White Crane should be pretty obvious, given the many similarities we share.

You responded:
Confused a little, are you saying you do White Crane here?

No, I wasn't saying I studied White Crane, and that should have been pretty obvious. "We" in the comment above referring to "we WCK people", since this is after all a WCK forum. So my assumption was that you were saying I couldn't make comparisons to White Crane if I didn't study White Crane, just as you were implying that Kellen couldn't comment on White Crane if he wasn't studying it.


Look at your own defence of Hendrik against this very same thing and now your jumping in on me? Just a differing viewpoint to all maybe

What are saying? I came to the defence of Hendrik because the accusations towards him just weren't adding up and it was an obvious smear campaign. Just has I chimed in to back up Kellen when I thought your comment was inappropriate.

Now to the actual subject, you are comparing White Crane and Okinawa Arts to a Lexus and a Mercedes ...... really? I mean .... really???

Are you saying you can't follow a simple analogy? Really? I mean....really????

And you have an idea of Okinawan Arts and Crane how? Don't justify, just answer the question put forward.

Ah! I guess my prior post went completely over your head!

You "Martial Artists" (I'm not one, just a Seeker of the Way) are a funny type of beast! So easily bent out of shape over so little. I wonder how that works?

Now hold on Ron. It seems to me that YOU are the one that was just "bent out of shape"! Calling me out for speaking up for Kellen....throwing around comments about just where we all studied White Crane and so how dare we express an opinion or any knowledge of the subject! Really!

You need to practice what your preach buddy!