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Thread: Best Wing Chun KO in MMA - Iron Wolves Fighter Chu Sau Lei Wing Chun

  1. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Wayfaring View Post
    I have no problem with this. If someone is disciplining themselves to hold their lines and form while sparring, and they do spar realistically, that's a good thing. I'm not 100% sure of the Chi Kiu strategy of seeking a bridge, but I don't train that family lineage and terms can easily be confused.

    I still think it's a bit obtuse that you can't see any WCK in that fight clip. I sure see Robert Chu's hip in body methods reeling punches all over it, structure, linking and delinking, etc.. Maybe if you made a list of WCK elements outside of the hand shapes (tan, bong, fook) and started to list out the less obvious elements of WCK it might give you a different perspective. Or maybe not. No big deal. As far as an opening stance, if you have a back weighted WCK stance with a man sau / wu sau then like Asbel Cancio in the UFC you will probably get taken down as you have to move forward before even initiating a defense.

    Good post.

  2. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    Lets look at this in simple terms:
    Alan teaches His version of WC, called Chu Sau Lei, to his fighters.
    His fighters have proven to be effective in full contact, limited rules fighting VS other trained fighters.
    That means that Alan's version of WC is clearly effective in fighting against a trained fighter in a limited rules environment.

    What other systems of WC can lay claim to that?
    Thank you
    common sense as won

  3. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Wayfaring View Post
    Sure man - would love to train with him and mix it up with your guys system. That would be fun. If I'm ever around any of your guys I'll look them up. You've got some interesting stuff and I'd love to see your blend of WCK, takedowns and ground for MMA. I spar with some Bellator and WSOF pros so I might be OK. But yeah I'm sure going after Josh would make for a long afternoon
    You would be very welcome. I have a really cool team

  4. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Wayfaring View Post
    Well from the other perspective it sounds a little insulting to put all that work into preparing for a cage match with your WCK, dominate and do well, only to be told by the little dogs on the porch that "you are not doing WCK" because "it doesn't look like WCK".
    Yes agree. We train very hard and we rep Wing Chun!

    So it is a disrespect to my teachers work to tell us it's not wing chun lol

    Thanks

  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Orr View Post
    Hidden skill is standard kung fu. It means hidden as the movement is hard to see, but if you understand it you can see it's being used
    BPWT has a habit of taking things to literally. He thinks "hidden" means no one can see it, rather than it just being unapparent to those who haven't trained to that level of understanding.

    Quote Originally Posted by BPWT.. View Post
    Well, regarding the rest of the fight, if the video title had not said "Wing Chun" in it, are you honestly saying that you would have said, "That was a great example of someone applying Wing Chun," because you would have identified Wing Chun from what you saw?
    Without looking for taan-da, chi-sau and such, there were many recognizable WC elements in his performance. While my system differs, I think CSLWC is the only other lineage with which I agree and have no complaints on.

  6. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post

    Without looking for taan-da, chi-sau and such, there were many recognizable WC elements in his performance. While my system differs, I think CSLWC is the only other lineage with which I agree and have no complaints on.
    "Recognizable WC elements"? This is what I said that drew so much criticism:

    But watching this clip I would not have thought this was Wing Chun if it wasn't in the tag line. To me, this is MMA with some WCK concepts included. This is not straight up Wing Chun. Wing Chun looks like Wing Chun because that is what it is.

    "Recognizable WCK elements" seems to me like it would certainly fit with "MMA with some WCK concepts included." So are you saying that in the end you actually agree with me or not?

  7. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    "Recognizable WC elements"? This is what I said that drew so much criticism:

    But watching this clip I would not have thought this was Wing Chun if it wasn't in the tag line. To me, this is MMA with some WCK concepts included. This is not straight up Wing Chun. Wing Chun looks like Wing Chun because that is what it is.

    "Recognizable WCK elements" seems to me like it would certainly fit with "MMA with some WCK concepts included." So are you saying that in the end you actually agree with me or not?
    Twisting words again. Lol

    Look it's been said hundred times now. This is CSL Wing Chun!

    Just because you can't see it, means nothing.

  8. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    BPWT has a habit of taking things to literally. He thinks "hidden" means no one can see it, rather than it just being unapparent to those who haven't trained to that level of understanding.



    Without looking for taan-da, chi-sau and such, there were many recognizable WC elements in his performance. While my system differs, I think CSLWC is the only other lineage with which I agree and have no complaints on.
    I think we are taking to the walking dead! They just can't see and understand that my guys train CSL Wing Chun. It's becoming funny and quite sad! Lol

  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Orr View Post
    I think we are taking to the walking dead! They just can't see and understand that my guys train CSL Wing Chun. It's becoming funny and quite sad! Lol
    Talking to the "walking dead" indeed! But just which side is twisting words and refusing to see points! NO ONE has questioned that your guys train CSL Wing Chun. That is a given. Just like NO ONE said that they expected to see drills showing up in sparring as you stated previously. Two other sparring clips have gone up here on the forum in the past 24 hours. BOTH of them show some good sparring with very recognizable Wing Chun technique and structure. All anyone has said here is that the same CANNOT be said for that original clip that you posted. The question is how much of Josh's success can be attributed SPECIFICALLY to his WCK training, and how much can be attributed SPECIFICALLY to his MMA training. Now I can anticipate your next response, because I HAVE actually been paying attention to what you have been saying even if you haven't been paying attention to what I have been saying. You will say that your guys are training exactly the same thing whether they are fighting in the cage or not. And I believe you. But just as Lyota Machida's classical Shotokan has undergone some adaptations for MMA that are seen in the clip I posted, I've only been saying that clearly your Wing Chun has also undergone adaptations for MMA. So I'm not sure why you so strongly object to seeing it as MMA with a Wing Chun base or MMA with Wing Chun concepts. I'll bet that Lyota Machida doesn't claim that his MMA is "straight up" Shotokan!

    I find it quite sad that you continue to address us in such a dismissive and somewhat rude fashion when we have been nothing but polite and respectful towards you.

  10. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    Talking to the "walking dead" indeed! But just which side is twisting words and refusing to see points! NO ONE has questioned that your guys train CSL Wing Chun. That is a given. Just like NO ONE said that they expected to see drills showing up in sparring as you stated previously. Two other sparring clips have gone up here on the forum in the past 24 hours. BOTH of them show some good sparring with very recognizable Wing Chun technique and structure. All anyone has said here is that the same CANNOT be said for that original clip that you posted. The question is how much of Josh's success can be attributed SPECIFICALLY to his WCK training, and how much can be attributed SPECIFICALLY to his MMA training. Now I can anticipate your next response, because I HAVE actually been paying attention to what you have been saying even if you haven't been paying attention to what I have been saying. You will say that your guys are training exactly the same thing whether they are fighting in the cage or not. And I believe you. But just as Lyota Machida's classical Shotokan has undergone some adaptations for MMA that are seen in the clip I posted, I've only been saying that clearly your Wing Chun has also undergone adaptations for MMA. So I'm not sure why you so strongly object to seeing it as MMA with a Wing Chun base or MMA with Wing Chun concepts. I'll bet that Lyota Machida doesn't claim that his MMA is "straight up" Shotokan!

    I find it quite sad that you continue to address us in such a dismissive and somewhat rude fashion when we have been nothing but polite and respectful towards you.
    I find it disrespectfully that you can not accept this us our wing chun. We are proud of our system and hard work. So to have to listen to people try to tell us it must be due to other things is rude and stupid.


    Mma means mixed martial arts. We train in CSL Wing chun for our stand up and Bjj and wrestling etc for our grappling. We in fact use more CSL wing chun skills in our grappling that the other way around !

    Wing chun is a principle and concept based art. That means our wing Chun is in the principles we follow and the application deals with the problem with concepts from our basics

    Please stop limiting Wing Chun to your view.

  11. #206
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    Man, bottom line is that Alan trains professional fighters, and his training gives them the tools they need to succeed in the MMA environment.
    Hats off to that!

  12. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Sean66 View Post
    Man, bottom line is that Alan trains professional fighters, and his training gives them the tools they need to succeed in the MMA environment.
    Hats off to that!
    Thanks bro. Nice and clear as wise words should be.

  13. #208
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfYmNhg4f9c

    New clip on Wing Chun punching development.

  14. #209
    The only thing good coming from this thread at the moment, is the happiness... it seems everyone is laughing at everyone else.

    Imagine this conversation from two other martial artists:

    Bob: Hey, check out this clip of my Aikido student winning a MMA fight with Aikido!
    Larry: Wow, congratulations! Good punch and KO. But I can't see the Aikido so much, it seems to me that...
    Bob: Look, check out his hip position.
    Larry: Yeah, okay. But still, in Aikido don't we train to...
    Bob: Man, it's "hidden" skill - if you can't see that you are too low level. You don't know what you're talking about.
    Larry: Really, congrats on the win - I mean it. I'm just saying that in Aikido I think we train to...
    Bob: (Shakes head) Listen, the system is concept based - you don't expect us actually throw and use joint manipulations, right?
    Larry: To be honest, I do. The concepts actually support the method.
    Bob: LOL. You are the Walking Dead.
    Larry: What? C'mon man, I'm just expressing the opinion that I...
    Bob: We train very hard and we represent Aikido! It is a disrespect to my teacher's work to tell us it's not Aikido.

  15. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Sean66 View Post
    Man, bottom line is that Alan trains professional fighters, and his training gives them the tools they need to succeed in the MMA environment. Hats off to that!
    Yes. And no one has disagreed with that.

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