Let me turn it around why not do those things? Why is that not wing chun?
Wing chun like boxing has lots of contradictions in what and how things are taught. There are a number of reasons for this. Part of the reason relates to the level being taught. As a beginner you may be told one thing or taught to do things one way and this may change as you get better. Another is context. Another is there is often more than one way to do things.Secondly, if they can explain why they do it (even though Alan shows very different and contradictory things in his other videos - as KPM just referenced), can they explain where this comes from: Yuen Kay San, Hawkins Cheung or the Gulao Wing Chun lineage?
Training is not application. What most people call application is not application. Application is actually sparring or fighting.
I heard Andreas Hoffman once asked at a seminar he was teaching where a move he just performed was in the form and he said it's not in the form it's application.Saying "it comes from CSL Wing Chun" is not very informative, as CSL Wing Chun came from Robert Chu who studied the YKS, HC and Gulao methods.
This would be a great start to being clearer.
No that's not the question. They train wing chun as their stand up so they use wing chun.
No the art does not come from Chu. Chu did not create wing chun. He like YKS and H Cheung and Yip organized his teaching of wing chun but it is all wing chun. The training is not the art.
It very much is.
The point is that much of what they do seems to go against most of the Wing Chun we are familiar with - which is why we ask for some details to try and understand it. Ducking and Weaving is found in other MAs, but I haven't seen it taught in Wing Chun before. Doesn't mean it is bad, just means I want to know where in their WCK background this came from, or did they add it in.
CSL Wing Chun is Robert Chu's system - a system, if I am not making a mistake, he teaches based on what he has learned from studying with the people we've just mentioned.
Ironically....
To be honest, tc101, I'd be happy to debate all this stuff with you - but I'd rather first hear from Chris to see if he's willing to give some more info about what we've asked.
You can't even give your name lol I can't waste my time then.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AlwYt3Yo5k
New clip on Hidden skill.
Anyone who looks at a fight and list every second of a fight has no fight understanding
Of course we cover when being hit. I'm not teaching robots. The way you talk about wing chun is from a child like point of view. When you grow up maybe you will see deeper skills
Yes exactly. Application or to put it another way sparring teaches you what YOU need to do and how to take your training and put it to work for YOU.
What we often get in these discussions are people not doing application or not sparring or fighting that have ideas that things should and will work a certain way. The thing is they are not doing it they just think things should be that way. This is armchair wing chun.
But you do not really know or understand how things really work for you until you really are doing them. Then you know.
So a person may think I will lean back and keep my chin up and that is how it should be done but until they are doing it and seeing how it really works for them they don't really know. And the thing is if you can do it and make it work that doesn't mean I can or that it is best for me. Much of this is individual.
I saw the question, but didn't think he was asking seriously. It's kinda Wing Chun 101 (no pun intended ) - WCK lineages approach body methods in a 'similar' way, and I figured do we need a post that lists why we hold our body the way we do, what relationship that has with our arm positions, what that means regarding facing, what muscles can be engaged, how it relates to WCK footwork, etc?... Just as a counter to the question: why do we CSL WCK leaning forward and bending down the head at they lunge forward with a strike?
Most stick to the basic skeletal alignment of the head being up and the spinal column straight, "Push the head up to the sky, feet firmly on the ground", etc. This is why I ask for some clarification from Chris - why do they do what they do, and where does it come from?
Same for the ducking and weaving, same for the hands positioned by the side of the face, same for them using the hands and gloves to cover and take hits, etc.
I was hoping to learn more from him, before the thread moved from a 'why' to a 'why not'.
Sometime we all see something and, well... it begs questions. A few people had questions regarding the CSL fight clip and then perhaps even more for the light sparring clip Alan posted.
Nothing sinister going on here - just people asking Qs to try and understand more. Like I said, I am happy to change my opinion if it's proved wrong
I have heard that before many times but do not agree. The forms are not the alphabet. That is the dance step model of wing chun where you learn various dance steps and then string them together. If it is not in the forms then it is not wing chun. This is when you get people creatively interpreting forms to find chokes and anything else they want to find. They see various dance steps they want to see. I learned things are more complex than that.
I see the forms as containing and referencing some of basic things like shapes paths structures actions and so forth needed for BEGINNERS to learn and develop certain skills. To go back many pages to my tennis analogy the books will teach you a model for hitting ground strokes but when playing tennis you hardly ever see anyone doing it like they teach it in the books. The model is meant to teach the substance of hitting and controlling the ball and is for beginners. You transcend that model when you begin to really play. Your ground strokes will look very different. It's the same with wing chun. The forms teach you the model. It is not teaching you the alphabet but a model for you to use to develop certain skills. But when you start playing or in our case fighting you will not look like the model.