Best Wing Chun KO in MMA - Iron Wolves Fighter Chu Sau Lei Wing Chun

[BPWT..]

tc101,

It's becoming tiresome (for me and all of you), for me to keep stating what's what.

Your 2 and 3 points are inaccurate because 1 is wrong.

Regarding 1, I know what 'my' Wing Chun is. Because I didn't see it in his clip, and because 'I' think most Wing Chun has common attributes, I said 'I' can't see the Wing Chun. I said that to 'me' it 'looks' more like boxing. That is why I asked about things in relation to concepts and principles and strategy; how it fits into 'their' Wing Chun, and where we can find this in relation to Hawkins Cheung WCK, Yuen Kay San WCK, etc; the arts that make up Robert Chu's WCK, which is what Alan teaches.

Saying what 'I' see is not an attack or condemnation, especially as I made it clear I was asking questions so I could better understand it from 'their' perspective. The name calling that came just makes it more confrontational.

Look at these sentences. Pretend I am a policeman

1.That man 'is' a criminal.
2.That man looks to 'me' like a criminal. Let's question him to ascertain some facts.

Disclaimer: no, I am not calling Alan a criminal. No, I am not a copper. No, I will not post video clips to show I am not a policeman or a criminal myself.

Anyone reading this ugly monster of a thread can see, quite clearly, what I was saying. Truly, I'm done trying to explain it. Have fun.

[LFJ]

2.That man looks to 'me' like a criminal. Let's question him to ascertain some facts.

Where I'm from you need reasonable suspicion to detain someone for questioning. I think Alan is free to go.

[Alan Orr]

tc101,

It's becoming tiresome (for me and all of you), for me to keep stating what's what.

Your 2 and 3 points are inaccurate because 1 is wrong.

Regarding 1, I know what 'my' Wing Chun is. Because I didn't see it in his clip, and because 'I' think most Wing Chun has common attributes, I said 'I' can't see the Wing Chun. I said that to 'me' it 'looks' more like boxing. That is why I asked about things in relation to concepts and principles and strategy; how it fits into 'their' Wing Chun, and where we can find this in relation to Hawkins Cheung WCK, Yuen Kay San WCK, etc; the arts that make up Robert Chu's WCK, which is what Alan teaches.

Saying what 'I' see is not an attack or condemnation, especially as I made it clear I was asking questions so I could better understand it from 'their' perspective. The name calling that came just makes it more confrontational.

Look at these sentences. Pretend I am a policeman

1.That man 'is' a criminal.
2.That man looks to 'me' like a criminal. Let's question him to ascertain some facts.

Disclaimer: no, I am not calling Alan a criminal. No, I am not a copper. No, I will not post video clips to show I am not a policeman or a criminal myself.

Anyone reading this ugly monster of a thread can see, quite clearly, what I was saying. Truly, I'm done trying to explain it. Have fun.

No we don't know who you are at all

The man with no name wants full bios and back ground checks before he can decide if he can see wing chun in my guys fights lol

Your question on CSL system has been explained in interviews and articles all on the web.

[Alan Orr]

You really don't understand why he may not be happy with the comments? He posts video clips of his wing chun trained fighters PERFORMING that is fighting and what comments does he get? Things along the lines of well he's a good fighter only that's not wing chun.

Here's the thing THAT comment implies that 1you know what wing chun should look like and 2 Orr and his team don't and therefore 3 you know wing chun better than he does. Right? He should be happy with that?

My perspective is that 1 is not true you and other commenters don't know what wing chun looks like. You know what the wing chun model looks like and you confuse the model with application. This confusion comes from not trying to fight with your model. If you did then you'd see the model does't work in fighting UNLESS you are sparring with wing chun clones or people who you simply outclass. This is why you are asked about your videos. You see while you argue that you know what wing chun should look like you can't show anyone fighting or sparring non wing chun fighters and that includes yourself who looks like you think they should. Except maybe non wing chun fighters lol.

The perspective I see again and again on this forum is that well I may not be able to do it but I know and understand it. It is like they think the measure of wing chun can be determined by a written standardized test. My perspective is that the measure of your wing chun is what you can do not what you think you know or think you understand. Having someone who can't do it define how it should be done is lol funny.

I couldn't have said it better! Thank you

[Wayfaring]

Look at these sentences. Pretend I am a policeman

1.That man 'is' a criminal.
2.That man looks to 'me' like a criminal. Let's question him to ascertain some facts.

The problem with this is that while #2 is not technically insulting, on the internet the phrasing looks so similar to #1 that the general public not reading with that level of distinction will take that and form an opinion like "CSL is not really WCK it's more boxing". So Alan has to address this for his arts sake to show the general public that there is more to his WCK than hand shapes and to show that you are being obtuse because you felt insulted when viewing hand shapes was called a lower level of understanding.

[KPM]

The problem with this is that while #2 is not technically insulting, on the internet the phrasing looks so similar to #1 that the general public not reading with that level of distinction will take that and form an opinion like "CSL is not really WCK it's more boxing". So Alan has to address this for his arts sake to show the general public that there is more to his WCK than hand shapes and to show that you are being obtuse because you felt insulted when viewing hand shapes was called a lower level of understanding.

Well WF, I think you are partially right. Obviously lots of people have mistaken the intent of #2 as being the same as #1. That has offended Alan, which was not anyone's intent. And I apologize to Alan for being part of that. As far as him "address this for his arts sake to show....", he hasn't done that. Really, this thing is up to more than 30 pages now. Wouldn't it have been much much easier with far less hard-feelings and talking past each other if Alan had simply explained how that list of biomechanical features from Josh sparring in that clip are based upon CSL WCK concepts? I can see that BPWT and I weren't asking the question in a very effective way initially. But we have obviously tried to change that in recent pages and ask it more respectively. But still no response. Over 30 pages and so far Dave is the ONLY one to try and match Josh's movement with WCK concepts. I know, I know...someone will say "why should Alan explain ANYTHING to you guys!" And you're right! He doesn't have to explain anything to us! He could have said "sorry, but I don't feel the need to explain this" and ended his participation in this thread on page 5. But he didn't. Again, wouldn't it have been simpler just to indulge us and answer the question rather than to continue this cr@p back and forth? Alan said explaining their structure was not a few sentences. Well, just look at how many sentences he has written in the back and forth bickering! We could have ended this 20 pages ago! But I'm sure that, once again, people will not see it from this perspective and place all the blame on "one side" of this whole thing. I don't know why I keep letting myself get drawn back into this over and over. Hopefully this is it for me.

[Alan Orr]

The problem with this is that while #2 is not technically insulting, on the internet the phrasing looks so similar to #1 that the general public not reading with that level of distinction will take that and form an opinion like "CSL is not really WCK it's more boxing". So Alan has to address this for his arts sake to show the general public that there is more to his WCK than hand shapes and to show that you are being obtuse because you felt insulted when viewing hand shapes was called a lower level of understanding.

Thank you taking time to add your view. It helps to hear that others understand me.

[Alan Orr]

Well WF, I think you are partially right. Obviously lots of people have mistaken the intent of #2 as being the same as #1. That has offended Alan, which was not anyone's intent. And I apologize to Alan for being part of that. As far as him "address this for his arts sake to show....", he hasn't done that. Really, this thing is up to more than 30 pages now. Wouldn't it have been much much easier with far less hard-feelings and talking past each other if Alan had simply explained how that list of biomechanical features from Josh sparring in that clip are based upon CSL WCK concepts? I can see that BPWT and I weren't asking the question in a very effective way initially. But we have obviously tried to change that in recent pages and ask it more respectively. But still no response. Over 30 pages and so far Dave is the ONLY one to try and match Josh's movement with WCK concepts. I know, I know...someone will say "why should Alan explain ANYTHING to you guys!" And you're right! He doesn't have to explain anything to us! He could have said "sorry, but I don't feel the need to explain this" and ended his participation in this thread on page 5. But he didn't. Again, wouldn't it have been simpler just to indulge us and answer the question rather than to continue this cr@p back and forth? Alan said explaining their structure was not a few sentences. Well, just look at how many sentences he has written in the back and forth bickering! We could have ended this 20 pages ago! But I'm sure that, once again, people will not see it from this perspective and place all the blame on "one side" of this whole thing. I don't know why I keep letting myself get drawn back into this over and over. Hopefully this is it for me.

Okay thank you for apologizing . Let's not then add why and who etc and restart it all again.

I'm happy to answer questions. Maybe some answers would be to long for a forum chat. I did film 3 extra clips about bridging, punching angles and power connection and also hidden skills. So I have made an effort by filming and loading clips for everyone.

I'm not going to explain my whole teachers system as it would take a book. I am writing a book on it and 40,000 words in - so it's not going to a short post.


The bridging clip I posted I talk about punching and making bridge control with and without contact.

The punching clip I posted I talk about joint connection and linking and delinking are key skills.

The hidden skills I posted I talk about the body structure

So check them out. I will add more clips on move areas each week on my you tube channel

[KPM]

Let's not then add why and who etc and restart it all again.

Agreed!

I did film 3 extra clips about bridging, punching angles and power connection and also hidden skills. So I have made an effort by filming and loading clips for everyone.

Yes! Thank you for that! I look forward to seeing further videos. I do check your youtube page regularly.


. I am writing a book on it and 40,000 words in - so it's not going to a short post.

Put me on the pre-order list! I look forward to seeing it!


So check them out. I will add more clips on move areas each week on my you tube channel

I will do that! Thanks Alan!

[Alan Orr]

Let's not then add why and who etc and restart it all again.

Agreed!

I did film 3 extra clips about bridging, punching angles and power connection and also hidden skills. So I have made an effort by filming and loading clips for everyone.

Yes! Thank you for that! I look forward to seeing further videos. I do check your youtube page regularly.


. I am writing a book on it and 40,000 words in - so it's not going to a short post.

Put me on the pre-order list! I look forward to seeing it!


So check them out. I will add more clips on move areas each week on my you tube channel

I will do that! Thanks Alan!

Thank you.

What would be your main question ? I will film the answer for you guys next week

[KPM]

Thank you.

What would be your main question ? I will film the answer for you guys next week

Personally, I would love to see you do a video showing how the sparring we have seen here that may look somewhat like western boxing to those unfamiliar with CSL WCK is actually expressing your Wing Chun. Demo the training form going to application under pressure, or show some free-fighting that doesn't necessarily "look" like Wing Chun, and then back up and explain how this is coming directly from the way you train your Wing Chun. Show a direct match between training and fighting. Then whenever the question comes up again, just refer to the video!

[Alan Orr]

Personally, I would love to see you do a video showing how the sparring we have seen here that may look somewhat like western boxing to those unfamiliar with CSL WCK is actually expressing your Wing Chun. Demo the training form going to application under pressure, or show some free-fighting that doesn't necessarily "look" like Wing Chun, and then back up and explain how this is coming directly from the way you train your Wing Chun. Show a direct match between training and fighting. Then whenever the question comes up again, just refer to the video!

I have posted a video showing some of that already.

http://youtu.be/yj9mTuia70A

But I will do another showing western boxing and CSL wing chun Chinese boxing and what is different.

Lots of sparring breakdowns are coming but I limit what I put out as my guys are still fighting

[KPM]

I have posted a video showing some of that already.

http://youtu.be/yj9mTuia70A

But I will do another showing western boxing and CSL wing chun Chinese boxing and what is different.

Lots of sparring breakdowns are coming but I limit what I put out as my guys are still fighting

Understood. Thanks again Alan!

[kung fu fighter]

I will do another showing western boxing and CSL wing chun Chinese boxing and what is different.

I believe it's the CSL wing chun body structure such as linking and de-linking that differentiate it from western boxing if I remember correctly.

[Hendrik]

I believe it's the CSL wing chun body structure that differentiate it from western boxing if I remember correctly.

Robert and me are research brothers. CSLWCK is core in ancient Wck with modern realistic evolution.