A data point from 1848 era

[Hendrik]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIYe...e_gdata_player

Enjoy.

[Hendrik]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIYe...e_gdata_player

Enjoy.

Long fist art is also called long bridge art
Short strike art is also called short bridge art


Hope this explain my view on
the different engine needed , the Inch power , the dynamic axis or seven bows handling instead of holding a structure or geometry shape as long fist art, biu Jee set is the short strike art based,
and also why biu Jee set is not effective using a long fist engine.

[Hendrik]

Hello Hendrik,

I agree with most of what you are relaying, however, I'd like to address a couple issues.

1. Being a long fist stylist I feel that the holding of structure as you describe it is not totally accurate, it depends on the method of long fist. Some methods employ continuous movement that contracts and expands weaving in and out of the long bridge and short bridge. This is done as a counter measure for collision, it allows one to gauge the gap and control the inside line from varying distances. In short the movement is not linear or static, the geometric shape changes slightly to compensate for distance.

2. I agree that Biu Jee is not effective offensively using the long fist "engine" but defensively it's a different story. The large circling movements are used in much the same manner as I described above, albeit not generally in an offensive manner. Defensively as a means of wrapping up or escaping it's performed in much the same manner as long fist.

I just wanted to clarify a couple of points that weren't readily addressed. All in all I generally agree with your assesment on the mechanics of the bridging.

1. Sure,
long fist art like clf is dynamic. Western boxing is Also dynamic. In contrast to some other southern fist style.


2. I would say, the close body or short strike art support engine is both defensive and offensive in the same time.

One can't seperate the ying and yang , they exist in the same instant, one cannot seperate the action and reaction force , the couple exist in the same time,

Or it is better to called is able to recieve and issue in the same time instead of offensive and defensive.

When entering into force flow art or close body art, it is not longer the long fist type of offensive and defensive paradigm.

One can't think of short strike art with long fist art logic.

Saying defensive means one has already lost one could in timing. And Wck a short strike art is a proactive art which is not doing defensive.

Either one can deliver the inch power in biu Jee set or one is using a long fist engine which is not effective . IMHO



In addition, IMHO
One really can't practice the SNT the way of holding structure , locking yjkym, holding breathing to get a result to support the fluid short strike art which never stop moving at close body range and playing with force flow or inch power continuously. It seems that Some how, some one makes an evolution from 1848 data point long time ago

The biomechanics just doesn't add up for the short strike art which heavily emphasis in enter the body or get close and dynamic close body force flow handling " inch Jin m come accept go return..." A reality we the modern wcners has to face.

[Hendrik]

I get what your saying, hard to perform Lin Sil Dai Da from long bridge and be efficient. I also agree with your comments on SNT as far as the holding of structure and expecting to generate fluidity and force, not effective at all. That really describes to me a "dead" method of chi gung as opposed to a "live" method of Gung Fat.

Good post Hendrik.

Agree.

The bottom line is :

Type of art, technics, power generation, and biomechanics have to add up. Otherwise it will be a disaster.
May be I say this will get many people to be upset. But realisticaly, this is what is needed to be face in the modern world because it got to be scientific otherwise it become a religion. Now we do have enough ancient evidence to say the ancient wcners are in fact scientific .

So, when Sergio , in his video, brought up on put things back in to the set. It is an honest sincere words. If we want the set to function effectively , we need to really look into the topic. To the minimum, IMHO, one needs the bardic seven bows handling .

One really can't do Wck with hung gar or clf engine. But lots of us doesn't realize there are long fist art and short strike art exist in 1848. Instead keep thinking everything is long fist art.


IMHO, it is similar to renessance era, the church wants it to be one way and their way, but the people starts noticing something is not add up.

[Hendrik]

Another thing can be brought up is gung fat cannot be just san sik.
Wck set is not just San sik add together.

Look at the San sik, is it a long fist art or a short strike art? How is the engine development to support it....etc. we can see, the long fist and short strike issue rarely being bought up in past 80 years. Thus, the evolution has been diverted in many directions.

Just take a look at Bruce lee closing the gap concept and Wck entering the body or get close in. These are telling one they are different art, heading in a different direction. Evidentally, Bruce lee inch punch is not the same with ancient Wck inch power which supporting short strike art.



The research of Wck history is important because it is from the proper history research that we know how the ancient art big picture is. And as how one to evolve his Wck for the future. It is everyone's free choice. But atleast we know Wck is a short strike art to begin with, And one can proceed from that.

[KPM]

Another thing can be brought up is gung fat cannot be just san sik.
Wck set is not just San sik add together.

Please explain to me how taking...let's say the Yip man SNT form...and practicing it as individual sections separately vs. practicing it all as one piece is any different. The form actually separates the sections and comes to a slight pause each time you bring your fists back to the chest at the same time. Why would practicing each of these sections separately develop "gung fat" less than practicing them added together?

Look at the San sik, is it a long fist art or a short strike art? How is the engine development to support it....etc. we can see, the long fist and short strike issue rarely being bought up in past 80 years. Thus, the evolution has been diverted in many directions.

I don't understand what you are saying here. What San Sik are "long fist art"?

Just take a look at Bruce lee closing the gap concept and Wck entering the body or get close in. These are telling one they are different art, heading in a different direction. Evidentally, Bruce lee inch punch is not the same with ancient Wck inch power which supporting short strike art.

How does that have anything to do with training in a San Sik format?

The research of Wck history is important because it is from the proper history research that we know how the ancient art big picture is. And as how one to evolve his Wck for the future. It is everyone's free choice. But atleast we know Wck is a short strike art to begin with, And one can proceed from that.

Well, in researching WCK history you will discover that Leung Jan taught Wing Chun in a San Sik format when he retired to Ku Lo village. Are you saying that he didn't develop "gung fat" and didn't know the "short strike art" because he trained in a San Sik format rather than as one long continuous form? This is an honest question because I don't understand what you are trying to say in your last post.