Is the modern Wck structure and chi sau a problem in reality?

[Hendrik]

What "Alan Orr platform" are you talking about Hendrik? Alan is using the "modern" rolling platform like every other Yip Man WCK lineage. He's just saying that one shouldn't stay at that range, but should use the rolling platform to create the opportunity to close in and take control.

And I'm not sure what you are asking or suggesting in your above post.

I am referring to Alan switching platform type as the above utube.

His platform in play is no longer the common modern platform .

[KPM]

I am referring to Alan switching platform type as the above utube.

His platform in play is no longer the common modern platform .

Then what platform is it? Maybe you need to describe what you mean by "platform"?

[Hendrik]

Then what platform is it? Maybe you need to describe what you mean by "platform"?

Ok.
IMHO, Alan or Robert is using a CSL dynamic platform which is no longer the modern generic Wck platform.
And this platform is rely on CSL power generation which is a seven bows based technology.

So, explicitly, it might looks generic in the beginning, but while in action it is a different type.


Csl dynamic platform can be analog to a four wheel drive for all range play, while genetic platform is a two wheel drive bounded by its structure and power generation for barrier range play.


The cars looks similar but not under the hood. If Csl doesn't have their special engine, it cannot go into a certain range.

[Vajramusti]

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1265710]Ok.

while genetic platform is a two wheel drive bounded by its structure and power generation for barrier range play.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------'

Hendrik is entitled to his views. But my considered opinion is that there is no "genetc" (generic?) platform.

There are many varied "platforms" depending on lineage and teacher and student.

Hendrik's analyses is full of straw man models which he criticizes. Watching lots of videos can create a false reality as well.

But then again- each to his own.

[kung fu fighter]

I personally believe the luk sao modern chi sao platform was intended to be a two-man san sik drill to develop the structure and energy of Bong, Tan, fuk sao, and gan or Kei depending on linage, much like the bong lap sao drill, and not a freestyle chi sao platform. The freestyle chi sao platform should be the circling hands platform where everything previously learnt are integrated including all the two-man san sik drills.

However in my opinion the integrated whole body power generation is more important than any platform. If one has the correct power generation, the platform is secondary, and does not matter too much. But all wing chun should be performed at close range regardless of the platform. In YKSWC luk sao is performed closer in than in YMWC to develop elbow range.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aKH0uAFst0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIUcjt6skLw

[Hendrik]

IMHO,

Just Tan bong fook is not complete , these three doesn't fully cover the 3D or "+ " .

It needs to have two couple or four technics cover four type of momentum to cover the "+" with the middle of the + is the center

And they are :

tan, spread

[Hendrik]

Took , cover

[Hendrik]

Bong, horizontal

[Hendrik]

Kei, vertical.


Bong and kie are couple. Bong without kei is missing one element.


the 1848 YKSLT kuit says:


Ya2下旋往上企肘膀
Spiral downward then up turn into the vertical elbow wing.

Ya4膀肘拗腰流下訪
Wing elbow bending waist visit (the opponent ) under the flow

[Vajramusti]

Bong, horizontal

----------------------------------------------

Inferences from your own straw man models!!!

[Vajramusti]

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1265723]IMHO,

Just Tan bong fook is not complete , these three doesn't fully cover the 3D or "+ " .

----------------------------------------------------
Guilty by Hendrik's proclamation!

[Hendrik]

----------------------------------------------

Inferences from your own straw man models!!!

Got nothing to do with me.

It is there in wing chun 1848. And it makes sense because it covers required dimension.

As for the common modern evolution : tan bong fook only seeds doesn't . The so called three seeds don't cover the full dimension. +


You are free to believe what you like .

[Hendrik]

[QUOTE=Vajramusti;1265728]

IMHO,

Just Tan bong fook is not complete , these three doesn't fully cover the 3D or "+ " .

----------------------------------------------------
Guilty by Hendrik's proclamation!

Got nothing to do with me, horizontal without vertical doesn't fully cover +.




The bottom line is either one wants to believe in a religion believing what ever the chief says is the truth

or

one wants to look at the biomechanics in an engineering way such as intelligent robotic to see how many degree of freedom and range is covered or not.



Same with the renessance era, you want to believe in the church or starting to look at the planet earth is round.

[KPM]

I personally believe the luk sao modern chi sao platform was intended to be a two-man san sik drill to develop the structure and energy of Bong, Tan, fuk sao,

Interesting idea! Yip Man Dan Chi Sao would logically be the first step of that, with it becoming Luk Sao when the other hand is added. But since YKSWCK doesn't use the same Dan Chi Sao, Luk Sao likely came first.

In YKSWC luk sao is performed closer in than in YMWC to develop elbow range.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aKH0uAFst0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIUcjt6skLw[/QUOTE]

I don't know what you mean by that. Those clips look just like Yip Man Luk Sao. Yip Man Luk Sao will close in to elbow range at times as well depending on the circumstance.

[KPM]

----------------------------------------------

Inferences from your own straw man models!!!

Joy, I don't even know what that means! Do you have a counterpoint?