"Old School" WC and "New School" WC...

[tc101]

keith i love your treatis on the evolution of the boxing stance and tactics. i enjoy studying the old school boxing matches on youtube. i dont want to hijack the tread, but there is one good old school, new school boxing comparsion vidoe i like. if anyone is intereseted i can post the link

Yes yes it is always lol funny to hear guys who don't box and have never trained as a boxer tell us about boxing.

[tc101]

Wing Chun is a principle based art. These principles don't change, just like laws of physics don't change.
So IMO, there is no 'old school' or 'new school', just varying degrees of understanding or misunderstanding of Wing Chun concept/principle - which can be easily seen in the vast amount of differences we have today in application.

Principles are not like the laws of physics. Wing chun is a skill just like boxing or bjj or mt or most fighting arts and the principles are there to help you develop that skill not rules or laws that must be obeyed.

Skill does not depend on knowledge or understanding but performance. I think that real knowledge and understanding only comes after skill. What most people mean by knowledge and understanding is their knowledge and understanding of the model. My ability to land solid shots with my body behind them isn't something you get through knowledge or understanding but comes from PRACTICE. You could say wing chun is a practice based art. You get better through practice.

The simplest way to see this is you get the so called master of knowledge and understanding who can talk at length about the model and put them in the ring and see how they can't make anything work.

[deejaye72]

Yes yes it is always lol funny to hear guys who don't box and have never trained as a boxer tell us about boxing.

i dont know if he boxed, i have. i had to, my modern wing chun is missing elements. i lost the instructions so, i had to learn from real people. what he said was still real interesting.

[tc101]

i dont know if he boxed, i have. i had to, my modern wing chun is missing elements. i lost the instructions so, i had to learn from real people. what he said was still real interesting.

I hear I have boxed from many people. What does that mean? Did you train with a fight trainer? Box in golden gloves? Or do a little boxing at done school where no one really trained or fought? Because what I mean by boxed is trained as a fighter at a boxing gym.

[deejaye72]

[QUOTE=kung fu fighter;1266449]

I consider "modern" hong kong wing chun to be an evolution of the origional WCK system, even though there are still traces of the origional wck system, many things have been evolved out such as many of the the origional snake and crane signatures, as well as short power generation, certain footwork knowledge, and chin-na.

i went to a seminar twenty years ago and witnessed a hong kong wing chun trained individual, throwing people around like ragdolls. big guys, little guys it didnt matter. when he took a break. i went over to him and asked him to show me. he threw me around the room like a ragdoll. his arms were soft, no strength. i was either on my heels or my toes. he was bridging and uprooting people. he looked liked he was doing internal martial arts, like bagua zhang or something...with all the uprooting. i asked him when the seminar was over where it came from, he said " it came from yip man. yip man taught it. modern wing wing chun has the structure, the internal and everything else.
i dont know where this "my style is older so it has everything in it and your info is lost" came from.

i can tell you the sifu's name and who he learned from but, i dont want to be accused from the resident soup nazi of name dropping.

[deejaye72]

I hear I have boxed from many people. What does that mean? Did you train with a fight trainer? Box in golden gloves? Or do a little boxing at done school where no one really trained or fought? Because what I mean by boxed is trained as a fighter at a boxing gym.

yeah i have! i kick boxed full contact when i was a teenager. i also took lessons from a guy who trained at gleasons gym. how about you?
i never won gold medals who cares. i learned how to protect my self. i still dont know why i have to justify what i know to you. we can still have a discussion even if i didnt know anything.

[KPM]

Yes yes it is always lol funny to hear guys who don't box and have never trained as a boxer tell us about boxing.

You never change do you Twen? I have to be a seasoned ring boxer to comment on history? Is every boxing commentator and ring announcer a seasoned ring boxer?

[deejaye72]

You never change do you Twen? I have to be a seasoned ring boxer to comment on history? Is every boxing commentator and ring announcer a seasoned ring boxer?

exactly right keith! how many boxing trainers can get in the ring with there fighters and mix it up?

[BPWT..]

[QUOTE=HybridWarrior;1266485]

Cool story dude! Good to hear a YMWC story. Too bad you can't drop the name though...

Yes, please drop the name it would be interesting to hear.

Besides, everything else gets dropped on this forum (principles and concepts: dropped; the ball: dropped; the tone dropped; countless references to tennis: drop shot)

[deejaye72]

[QUOTE=BPWT..;1266487]

Yes, please drop the name it would be interesting to hear.

Besides, everything else gets dropped on this forum (principles and concepts: dropped; the ball: dropped; the tone dropped; countless references to tennis: drop shot)

yeah what the hell! i've been married 22 years. there is nothing you guys dish out i cant take!

sifu miguel hernandez from moy yat ving tsun. not only one of the most skilled martial artist i've ever met, but also one of the most humble.

[Vajramusti]

[QUOTE=deejaye72;1266475]

i went to a seminar twenty years ago and witnessed a hong kong wing chun trained individual, throwing people around like ragdolls. big guys, little guys it didnt matter. when he took a break. i went over to him and asked him to show me. he threw me around the room like a ragdoll. his arms were soft, no strength. i was either on my heels or my toes. he was bridging and uprooting people. he looked liked he was doing internal martial arts, like bagua zhang or something...with all the uprooting. i asked him when the seminar was over where it came from, he said " it came from yip man. yip man taught it. modern wing wing chun has the structure, the internal and everything else.
i dont know where this "my style is older so it has everything in it and your info is lost" came from.

i can tell you the sifu's name and who he learned from but, i dont want to be accused from the resident soup nazi of name dropping.

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I can understand that. When one is thoroughly exposed to Ip Man's wing chun-throwing, kicking and other things besides punching becomes part of the repertoire
imo. A problem is that many of Ip man's students worked with him only a little bit and went off on their own. If one is well rounded in their wing chun training, they can apply their skills(does not have to be techniques) to other activities. A friend's girl friends father had Ip Man to come to his house for private lessons.
One day there were visitors who were martial artists- they dared Ip man to deal with their powerful kicks..Ip man started throwing them all over the place.
The girl who saw Ip man's throws, lived in Phoenix for a while but now has gone back to Asia.

[Hendrik]

With the seven bows and six core elements,

One can read the signature of ones art and know what it is to at least the first order.

So, one can read the signature from the old photos, old video.... Even old description to see is it a facts.





Many have not develop the Wck skill to read and keep thinking " look like taiji , look like...." Those are just some ones opinion which not based on facts.


For example,

The taiji of Chen man Ching and CC Chen is a long fist art, how is thar got to do with seven bows and six core elements of Wck which is a short strike art?

The Bagua is a circular momentum art, how is that got to do with Wck capture to center line momentum?





Often many just link taiji and Bagua or hung gar iron wire or western boxing to Wck via creativity and imagination as in the plot of Kung fu movie , That too shows one really doesn't know what one is talking about. Look at the Wck sets, does it designed to do yang taiji long jing? Bagua circular momentum? Hung gar dynamic tension? Western Boxing long fist art mobility?


Get a utube, a photo , just analyze the seven bows trajectory, one can see the signature.
Today, One can simple bring the utube of the certain individual to see what is the facts.
That simple.
There is no secret, the facts are naked in front of ones eyes, if one knows how to read seven bows trajectory. And there is no need of over imflated using oneself as the standard reference type of truth.

As I point out above, if one doesn't even know the different between a long fist art and short strike art, how is he suppose to know what is taiji what is Wck? How boxing different then Wck? What type of engine is used to support Wck?




As for old school and new school,
IMHO,
The so called old school describe is a Hong Kong evolution of Wck of past 50 years.

And we can see, it is the Hong Kong era which evolve Wck into western boxing type.

[Hendrik]

The Reality of Wck in the past five decades , when its short strike art evolve into long fist art And used against a long fist art.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AKF...e=youtube_gdat

[deejaye72]

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1266493]With the seven bows and six core elements,

One can read the signature of ones art and know what it is to at least the first order.

So, one can read the signature from the old photos, old video.... Even old description to see is it a facts.





Many have not develop the Wck skill to read and keep thinking " look like taiji , look like...." Those are just some ones opinion which not based on facts.


For example,

The taiji of Chen man Ching and CC Chen is a long fist art, how is thar got to do with seven bows and six core elements of Wck which is a short strike art?

The Bagua is a circular momentum art, how is that got to do with Wck capture to center line momentum?





Often many just link taiji and Bagua or hung gar iron wire or western boxing to Wck via creativity and imagination as in the plot of Kung fu movie , That too shows one really doesn't know what one is talking about. Look at the Wck sets, does it designed to do yang taiji long jing? Bagua circular momentum? Hung gar dynamic tension? Western Boxing long fist art mobility?


Get a utube, a photo , just analyze the seven bows trajectory, one can see the signature. That simple[/QUOte

can you post videos of you or your students dynamically uprooting people? i didnt know what it was at the time, but i experienced it with my eyes and felt it. what makes you think you know everything. my point was modern wing chun has everything, you just have to look for it. i was wront to argue with you. lets just discuss the issues.

[Hendrik]

[QUOTE=deejaye72;1266495]

can you post videos of you or your students dynamically uprooting people? i didnt know what it was at the time, but i experienced it with my eyes and felt it.


what makes you think you know everything.

my point was modern wing chun has everything, you just have to look for it. i was wront to argue with you. lets just discuss the issues.

Why don't you post your video of uproot? And those who you consider to have the top skill according to you?

I don't think I know everything. I present what it is .