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Thread: Pure Chan wah shun wck linage footage

  1. #16
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    I think Tam Wing Biu's lineage has added a lot of Southern Fist and may not be truly representative of what Chan Wah Shun taught.

    As for Yuen Kay Shan, it is known that he and Yip were longtime friends. A look at their sets, and you can see the resemblance. Yip Man's early version in HK looks very much like YKS' system.

    As for Leung Bik, I personally doubt the whole story of Yip Man learning from him. That does not mean that others cannot have a different opinion.

    No one has all the facts.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by chusauli View Post
    YKS Jum Sao in SNT:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dKAcCvL8ZE

    There's no Gaun Sao.
    What?

    What is that @1:32? I don't know what you call it if it isn't gaang-sau, but it's certainly not jam-sau.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by chusauli View Post
    No one has all the facts.
    I would tend to agree with that. Although I would also add that whatever Chan Wah Shun was teaching, Ip Man was not authorised in the 'public' sense to carry on the school that Chan Wah Shun set up. Ng Jung So was the inheritor and he worked extensively with Chan Wah Shuns son Chan Yiu Min according to what I have read.

    I also thought it was 'common knowledge' that Ip Man stripped many of the older traditions away, adjusting what he had been taught and inventing a 'New Method' that he alone taught in Hong Kong. So on reflection, maybe NOTHING was added to Chan Wah Shuns original curriculum by his sons or Ng Jung So?!! Maybe it was Ip Man that removed EVERYTHING! And so in looking for an original template of Wing Chun we will always find similarities to other Southern and Shaolin based Systems? Or are we to take the Taost Emei approach to find our answers? Or Yong Chun White Crane??

    Each to their own, but at least understand that it's all simply speculation for now...
    Ti Fei
    詠春國術

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneTiger108 View Post
    I also thought it was 'common knowledge' that Ip Man stripped many of the older traditions away, adjusting what he had been taught and inventing a 'New Method' that he alone taught in Hong Kong. So on reflection, maybe NOTHING was added to Chan Wah Shuns original curriculum by his sons or Ng Jung So?!! Maybe it was Ip Man that removed EVERYTHING! ...
    If that was true, then you would have to admit that Yuen Kay Shan pretty much stripped away almost exactly the same elements and material! That still suggests a pretty close relationship and collaboration between Yip Man and Yuen Kay Shan, don't you think?

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    If that was true, then you would have to admit that Yuen Kay Shan pretty much stripped away almost exactly the same elements and material! That still suggests a pretty close relationship and collaboration between Yip Man and Yuen Kay Shan, don't you think?
    Since the internet is available, people can see the closeness of the 2 systems. YKS kept the sets as he learned them from Fok Bo Chuen.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    What?

    What is that @1:32? I don't know what you call it if it isn't gaang-sau, but it's certainly not jam-sau.
    Looked like gan-sau to me

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneTiger108 View Post
    I would tend to agree with that. Although I would also add that whatever Chan Wah Shun was teaching, Ip Man was not authorised in the 'public' sense to carry on the school that Chan Wah Shun set up. Ng Jung So was the inheritor and he worked extensively with Chan Wah Shuns son Chan Yiu Min according to what I have read.

    I also thought it was 'common knowledge' that Ip Man stripped many of the older traditions away, adjusting what he had been taught and inventing a 'New Method' that he alone taught in Hong Kong. So on reflection, maybe NOTHING was added to Chan Wah Shuns original curriculum by his sons or Ng Jung So?!! Maybe it was Ip Man that removed EVERYTHING! And so in looking for an original template of Wing Chun we will always find similarities to other Southern and Shaolin based Systems? Or are we to take the Taost Emei approach to find our answers? Or Yong Chun White Crane??

    Each to their own, but at least understand that it's all simply speculation for now...
    Exactly Soencer, enjoy the stories by all maens but it is, as you say, all speculation

  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    About? ....
    About YKS not having jum sau in their forms. Dr. Chu already showed it does. Also one of the Cheung Bo 12 San Sik in YKS wing chun system is the single sinking bridge or jum sau.

    These stories like Leung Bik and so forth cannot be trusted.
    Last edited by tc101; 05-14-2014 at 05:02 AM.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by tc101 View Post
    About YKS not having jum sau in their forms. Dr. Chu already showed it does.
    In SNT? All he did was post another clip of SNT and said it had jam-sau and no gaang-sau, but I saw exactly the opposite. Unless you're calling something else jam-sau, you'll have to point the exact action out to me in the clip.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    In SNT? All he did was post another clip of SNT and said it had jam-sau and no gaang-sau, but I saw exactly the opposite. Unless you're calling something else jam-sau, you'll have to point the exact action out to me in the clip.
    Perhaps that's what you saw.

    In learning the YKS SLT set, I learned it with no Gaang Sau (Gaun Sao), but Jum Sao.

    In Rene Ritchie's book on Yuen Kay Shan Wing Chun, his Sifu demonstrates the same set with a Jum Sao, not Gaun Sao.

    From what I know and have learned, there is no Gaun Sao.

    Dr. Cheung Yung in HK (who learned from Sum Nung, YKS' disciple), also does not do the Gaun Sao:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDpx5juWHX0

    Hope this helps.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by chusauli View Post
    Perhaps that's what you saw.
    Uh, yeah...

    Dr. Cheung Yung in HK (who learned from Sum Nung, YKS' disciple), also does not do the Gaun Sao:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDpx5juWHX0

    Hope this helps.
    Well, no. It doesn't help one bit. You post a clip which shows the exact opposite of what you're saying it shows.

    What exactly are you referring to as "jum sao" in these clips? What time mark are we looking at? It very clearly shows "gaun sao", unless you've flipped the terminology.

  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    Uh, yeah...



    Well, no. It doesn't help one bit. You post a clip which shows the exact opposite of what you're saying it shows.

    What exactly are you referring to as "jum sao" in these clips? What time mark are we looking at? It very clearly shows "gaun sao", unless you've flipped the terminology.
    The jum sau precedes the guan sau.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by tc101 View Post
    The jum sau precedes the guan sau.
    Oh, you mean the one "he doesn't do"?

  14. #29
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    He's going so fast he almost looks sloppy. But to me, it looks like Tan/Jum/Tan/Got Gan. He does the Jum Sao quite low so it almost looks like a Gan Sao. The "Got Gan" or "cutting Gan" is the hooking action back towards the waist. Maybe they don't consider that to be a true Gan Sao in YKSWCK?

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    He's going so fast he almost looks sloppy. But to me, it looks like Tan/Jum/Tan/Got Gan. He does the Jum Sao quite low so it almost looks like a Gan Sao.
    Seriously? That's what they're calling "jum sao"? His arm goes down almost straight. Anyhow...

    Everyone is familiar with the WSL version, right? It has two clear sections of taan/jam/taan and taan/gaang/taan.

    The jam-sau is just a subtle action contracting the elbow. This doesn't appear in either the CWS or YKS lineages' SNT form. What they do appears to be the equivalent of the gaang-sau section, whatever they call it.

    This jam-sau is what was referred to when Yip Man said he got it from Leung Bik. It clearly didn't come from CWS or YKS.

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