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Yes the WSL form makes it very distinct and so does the LT form. In YKS the second half of the SLT form is supposed to be performed as quickly as you can move so speed is emphasized and thus movements blend together and appear less sharp but the action is there. That's how I learned it with a very distinct jum sau flowing into a guan sau. Jum or chum means sinking it is the same character in Chinese. As I told you before the action is also part of our Cheung Bo 12 San Sik and is called the single sinking bridge.Originally Posted by LFJ
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The story I remember reading was that Yip Man taught the Tan/Jum/Tan version in SNT. Then WSL was in a "Bei Mo" and took a low punch when his Jum Sao didn't quite stop it well enough. So he started doing the Tan/Gan/Tan version in his own SNT and Yip Man gave his approval. Prior to that the Gan didn't really show up utnil the dummy form. Tan/Jum/Tan is clearly in YSKWCK, even if you don't agree with how they do their Jum Sao. So I wouldn't put much into this Leung Bik story.
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Okay, but Robert just finished saying they don't do a gaang-sau, and whatever is being called jam-sau is not what I recognize by that term.
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Yeah, but of course WSL kept the jam-sau section too, while most others following the event dropped the "old" technique for the "new" one and only have the gaang-sau section.
It's not so clear from my perspective. Whatever they call it and however they do it, it is certainly not the same action done in WSLVT.Tan/Jum/Tan is clearly in YSKWCK, even if you don't agree with how they do their Jum Sao. So I wouldn't put much into this Leung Bik story.
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As I do YKS wing chun I think I know what it is I'm doing. YKS as I learned it has both a guan sau and chum or jum sau action. In the SLT the actions are there. In the San Sik it is sometimes taught with a guan sau and sometimes a single sinking bridge.
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I'll just say I learned the YKS SLT set with a Jum Sao, not a Gaun Sao. As for the 1st video I posted, admittedly, the guy is a little sloppy, perhaps causing confusion?
In Cheung Yung's video, he is doing it from what a Yip Man lineage person's perspective would be a Jum Sao...
otherwise, I need my reading glasses.
And guys, really? Its not worth arguing over.
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Well sure, my point was more to do with Leung Bik's influence on Yip Man than the action itself, but regarding the action, it plays an important role in WSLVT and seems under-appreciated by many others, particularly in the execution of it being a subtle contraction of the elbow in the way we do it. I don't see this in other lineages. Many do it by dropping the wrist which changes everything.And guys, really? Its not worth arguing over.
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Great! That's how I learned it.
And tc101, I agree in the San Sao.
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That's all model level stuff and has nothing to do with application.
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No. Application is exactly what I'm talking about.
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Can you point me to a video clip of some one sparring or fighting non wing chun guys using this remarkable subtle elbow contraction jum sau that comes from Leung Bik? No? Then it isn't application. Application is actually sparring or fighting that's when you are really applying wing chun.
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If you don't see a clip of it, it's not application? And who the hell are you?
No sh!t, fool. For a guy who harps on this in every posts, no matter the topic or the comment it's in response to, you have a remarkably empty Youtube account.Application is actually sparring or fighting that's when you are really applying wing chun.
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I don't claim to be any one just a guy that does't swallow things he's told but only believes what he sees. Application is really using your wing chun it's not how you think it will work or what you think you will do that is only the model but what you are really doing. My asking for a clip is my way of saying you are not seeing it really used in sparring or fighting like that it is just how you think things should work. That's why it is model level wing chun. There's nothing wrong with that.
If you want clips of wing chun fighters you can look at the Orr guys. Do you see the jum sau with your subtle elbow movement used? No and there is a reason.
The thing about really sparring or fighting is much of the time you cannot do the things you want but need to deal with what your opponent is doing and giving you. Most opponents will not give you the kinds of shots that your subtle elbow action jum sau can deal with. The model is not application it's not how things really work. Here's the other thing I can't tell you how to apply your wing chun. No one can. You have to work that out for yourself through sparring. It's the same in boxing. But I can tell you what sorts of things will not work and you can get a good idea for yourself by looking at fights. If you don't see it there is usually a very good reason.
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Yes, I do see the Orr guys using the elbow in much the same way as it is done in my lineage. You have no idea what I'm even talking about. All you can do is repeat your "mantra". It's your standard response to any post regardless of the topic.
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