More White Crane

[PalmStriker]

Quote Originally Posted by Minghequan View Post
Connection to Wing Chun? Maybe in a few cursory movements and appearance. Would be a great service to myself and others if Sifu Ron could ask Sifu Lee Kong about the last set in the video. He may just have the missing link information about this set that establishes the particular origin of the SLT set. I would think this set is of White Crane origin, perhaps a very old set and not vice-versa where a Crane lineage took on the SLT set as part of their repertoire from WingChun as have some other Southern lineages. The material looks too White Crane-like to have modified a version of WingChun SLT. Either way, maybe Sifu Lee Kong may know of this.

[KPM]

Man talk about "touchy!"

Get out of the wrong side of bed this morning Keith

It's no big deal and certainly not to the level you are making it so don't sweat the small stuff! Just funnin' with Ya is all! Interesting though to see your reaction (or "over-reaction” )

Think highly of myself? No not really but I do believe in what I do and what I consider to be right just like any other person on this rotating blue ball.

Chill brother!

Chill brother? You make snarky comments and directives like "stop using me in your attempts to justify your position." And when its pointed out to you how far off you are you justify it by saying "Just funnin' with Ya is all"??? If your tone and intention is not clear, and your words are rather rude, you are going to get a similar response. You you were "just funnin" when you told me to stop using you to "justify my position"?? Your post certainly didn't seem to me like you were "just funnin."

[Minghequan]

Man! It's just an internet forum. For F#@k Sake stop being so sensitive!

[KPM]

Man! It's just an internet forum. For F#@k Sake stop being so sensitive!

Ah shucks! I was just funnin' with ya Ron!

[Minghequan]

Yeah me too baby. Good to see you can take a joke ....look in the mirror ... just funnin' with ya

[Minghequan]

RE: White Crane and Lee Kong as presented in the Vid posted ........

The last set shown has many similarities to Siu Nim Tao of the Snake Crane lineage.

Master Lee Kong confirms that this is very Old White Crane, not the same as other 5 crane styles. This set we cannot find in today's 5 White Crane lineages.

Out of respect for Master Lee Kong, I will not name this set nor say any more about it. It is a family form.

I can say that it was said that:

"You like to learn and to take as much as possible. What Shing did in the video, it is very similar to your fa jin video as you do your form"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBKHYb90lBw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bq_brh6zas

I hope this helps in some small way.

[KPM]

Ron wrote initially:

Snake-like? ... sorry don't see it myself.

Connection to Wing Chun? Maybe in a few cursory movements and appearance.


Ron says now:

The last set shown has many similarities to Siu Nim Tao of the Snake Crane lineage.


So I'm confused. Have you changed your mind and are now agreeing with me when I wrote in my first post:

Also note the form demonstrated near the end of the clip. Lots of very "snake-like" motions. You will see many Biu Gee's as well as the "waving hands" from the YMWCK Biu Gee form or the YKSWCK SNT form that is often referred to as "snake hands". I personally didn't realize that White Crane had these "snakey" motions.

[LFJ]

You will see many Biu Gee's as well as the "waving hands" from the YMWCK Biu Gee form or the YKSWCK SNT form that is often referred to as "snake hands".

"Waving hands" is a good name for it. WSL used to say that's them waving goodbye just before they die.
It's not done like that in our BJ form from YM.

[Minghequan]

Keith ..... really?

Did you even read my post. I said (slowly so you will understand!):

The last set shown has many similarities to Siu Nim Tao of the Snake Crane lineage.

Have you seen the Snake Crane Wing Chun Siu Nim Tao as performed by Master yung's people?

Yes it has similarities more so for me in the White Crane and less for the Snake (Doh! I'm a White Crane stylist, not a "Snake" stylist). Can I make that any clearer for you???

I don't see any connection to what Hendrik is touting from his end or his "snake" .... got it?

Interesting that you cherry piuck my statements to death ad-nausea yet Hendrik who is the master of un-clear and rather undefined statements gets no treatment from you?

Hendrik fails to answer the most direct and simple question yet you remain silent?

Hendrik says its his right to change his mind and yet you say nothing!

I attempt to clarify my view and off you go!

Hmmm maybe, just maybe you are showing signs of an agenda?

That's okay though as I can see where your headed and why. It doesn't matter as I'll keep posting my views and if this is all you have to contribute to the discussions well I think I'll just ignore you .... breaking up is so hard to do

[KPM]

I gave up on trying to make sense out of Hendrik long ago. But you're right. I guess I should just give up on trying to make any sense out of you as well. As much as you would hate to admit it, you too seem to be cut from a similar cloth.

[PalmStriker]

RE: White Crane and Lee Kong as presented in the Vid posted ........

The last set shown has many similarities to Siu Nim Tao of the Snake Crane lineage.

Master Lee Kong confirms that this is very Old White Crane, not the same as other 5 crane styles. This set we cannot find in today's 5 White Crane lineages.

Out of respect for Master Lee Kong, I will not name this set nor say any more about it. It is a family form.

I can say that it was said that:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBKHYb90lBw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bq_brh6zas

I hope this helps in some small way.

That is what I was hoping to here about the set which is the missing link to the WingChun/White Crane development origin. Many thanks to yourself and Master Lee Kong for this information, and of course the performer of the set.

[KPM]

The name of the set is Shier Jie Dao Quan (Loosely translated as, 12 Joints Power Fist). It has much in common with Ba Shou Sanzhan Quan (8 Hands 3 Conflicts Fist). Both forms strike a remarkable resemblance to Tensho of Goju Ryu. The Hua Shou (Flower Hands) section of Yong Chun's (Wing Chun) Xiao Lian Tou (Siu Lin Tau) set is well represented by both of these forms. The branches of Yong Chun that have a walking method of Xiao Lian Tou will no doubt find even greater similarity. 7 Bows (7 Stars), 6 Coordination's, 12 Bridges, 5 Elements etc. all play a part. The movements and patterns of Snake and Crane are often blurred and intermingled. Snake represents energy Crane represents sinew. Together they are the representation and manifestation of Liqi or Jin. The Naga (Snake/Dragon) and the Garuda (Crane/Eagle), this union dates back to the beginning of recorded history and has a much deeper meaning than many realize. I could elaborate much, much further but think it best for anyone interested to investigate this for themselves. If you do, you just may be amazed at what you find.

Very interesting! Thanks for the info Dave!

[Hendrik]

The name of the set is Shier Jie Dao Quan (Loosely translated as, 12 Joints Power Fist). It has much in common with Ba Shou Sanzhan Quan (8 Hands 3 Conflicts Fist). Both forms strike a remarkable resemblance to Tensho of Goju Ryu. The Hua Shou (Flower Hands) section of Yong Chun's (Wing Chun) Xiao Lian Tou (Siu Lin Tau) set is well represented by both of these forms. The branches of Yong Chun that have a walking method of Xiao Lian Tou will no doubt find even greater similarity. 7 Bows (7 Stars), 6 Coordination's, 12 Bridges, 5 Elements etc. all play a part. The movements and patterns of Snake and Crane are often blurred and intermingled. Snake represents energy Crane represents sinew. Together they are the representation and manifestation of Liqi or Jin. The Naga (Snake/Dragon) and the Garuda (Crane/Eagle), this union dates back to the beginning of recorded history and has a much deeper meaning than many realize. I could elaborate much, much further but think it best for anyone interested to investigate this for themselves. If you do, you just may be amazed at what you find.

Seven stars is not 7 bows I refer to. Different things.


Garuda is not crane.

Wing chun kuen Xiao lian Tou is a short strike art not a long fist art .

Fujian White crane even the Gm Lee Kong set doesnt develop the fingers details nd medirians similar to 1848 YKSLT which based its technolgy in the e mm ei 12 zhuang 20 medirians system. That differentiated Fujian white crane we with WCK

The key is in the details

[JPinAZ]

Wing Chun is a concept and is not bound by range.

Worth repeating! Since Hendrik doesn't train with partners or use his wing chun beyond doing forms, he can't and will never understand this.

[Minghequan]

KPM

I gave up on trying to make sense out of Hendrik long ago. But you're right. I guess I should just give up on trying to make any sense out of you as well. As much as you would hate to admit it, you too seem to be cut from a similar cloth.

Interesting. You state in black and white that you "gave up on trying to make sense out of Hendrik long ago" yet you rush to his defence at just about every opportunity? Very strange behaviour for one who admits that he can't make sense of Hendrik's writings. Oh well, martial arts is full of the strange and the wonderful.

So your giving up on me to Keith? Breaking my heart man! And here I was thinking you and I had something truly "special". Oh well at least we will be able to talk White Crane / Wing Chun without your distractions. I'm going to miss you buddy!

As for comparisons between me and Hendrik ... Lol the ramblings of a desperate man (You not Hendrik!). I am vastly different from Hendrik and I suspect you in a great many ways far to many to list here so I'll mention but a few:

1/. I actually train.
2/. I actually apply my art.
3/. I have used my art many, many times over the past 22 years as a Security Operative.
4/. I have direct links and lineage to China proper.
5/. I teach others five classes per week.

Anyhow. it has been interesting but I prefer discussing things with Palmstriker and David etc. They discuss the subject matter and not the personalities.

Best wishes Keith!